The picture shows magnesium and calcium hydroxides precipitating, also carbonates thereof, formed from decomposition of their corresponding bicarbonates. Some dissolved air will also be forced out of solution, adding slightly to the clouding effect in the short term.

Many public water supplies vary in mineral content over time due to blending of different water sources in the distribution reservoir.

Thanks..

Considering the amount of vine Alks I extract, I should make the change to tap water , save money and effort ..

OK, but be aware that fine particulates can mess stuff up sometimes! Namely filtration and separating emulsions.

Alkaline earth insolubles could throw the weight of your harmala freebase, making it seem weaker. If using tap water, perhaps pre-treat it with a little sodium carbonate and allow to settle before using it to make up hydroxide solution before basing your harmala acetates/hydrochlorides.

And that brings me to ask for extraction help at this point in time. So please, anyone with any good ideas feel free to chime in, because I am in serious need of good ideas ATM...


Preface: Over the last bunch of years I've been using endlessness's Sodium Carb/Vinegar/IPA tek to extract my Spice...It worked pretty good, but as DisEmboDied pointed out in the quote above, I always felt after every extraction process that I was not getting as high of percentage yield as I could have using other methods, however much I loved using non-toxic substances in the process. And the end product (after I figured out how to filter the Sodium Carb better) was always pretty dang potent.

When I came across this thread, and the simplicity of how DisEmboDied laid it all out, I thought to myself, "I am going to try that technique next time extracting weather rolls around our way here (which is now; I do all my extractions in our barn, so I like the weather to be hot & dry)...

The Dilemma:

Since scoring some pure NaOH lye on sale for super cheap at the local hardware store a couple months ago I was well on my way to trying out this (new-to-me) tek.

However, all I've had laying around the barn for solvent for the last several years is pure, medical-grade, 99% Isopropyl Alcohol (known here at the Nexus as IPA, but not to be confused with my favorite type of ales).

After finishing the first step of basifying in the NaOH/distilled water solution I dutifully poured the prescribed amount of solvent (in this case IPA) into the mix the next day and immediately had a bad feeling about the whole experiment...

Duh!!! I said to myself...IPA is miscible in water!!! It's not going to separate into layers so that I can siphon the solvent off!!!! Arrrgghh!! (best pirate "argh" you can imagine at this point).

So it was too late at that point. So now, the mixture sits with me staring at it 10 times a day as I do my daily chores and go about with the ranch work...

What can I do to salvage this? There is still a little room left at the top of the jar that I was supposing could be filled up with a non-miscible solvent and perhaps it wouldn't matter too much if there's already IPA in the mix? On that note, if that would work, I could transfer the whole thing to another, larger container if need be.

Any thoughts, suggestions or ideas on this would be greatly appreciated as my old stash of Spice is getting precariously low and I've suddenly felt as if it were once again time in my life to do more hyperspatial traveling.

Thank you all in advance for your time.

I think you can separate IPA and water by adding salt (NaCl) to the mixture.



https://www.wikihow.com/Separate-Alcohol-and-Water

Thank you ijahdan for the helpful suggestions!

I hadn't thought of freezing the whole thing...that might just be the best answer to my dillemma...though I probably will have to transfer the whole mess into a different container since the canning jar it is in will likely bust from the water expansion in the freezer.

Thanks again.

I wish one of you would have told me that the water in the jar would not freeze due to being loaded with lye.

So much for that technique in this case.

Ok...I've got some other options available. I can't afford, and am not willing, to go out and spend money on a distilling apparatus, so that option is out of the picture.

I could try salting the IPA out of the solution, however I don't know whether or not this strategy would mess up the extraction process in some way...Any answers regarding that?

Another option that I have considered is just getting a different solvent, probably some naphtha and add that to the equation, but my question with that is, will the naphtha still separate from the lye/distilled water solution if there is already a solid amount of 99% IPA in there?

Any answers to these questions are seriously appreciated!!!

You will probably get three phases: mostly naphtha on top, mostly IPA in the middle and the mostly aqueous phase at the bottom. At least this is what happens with limonene, IPA and basic (sodium carbonate) water. The colour goes into the middle layer.

This can lead to an infinite regress of fiddling about, so have fun!


Sorry, I nearly told you this but then didn't (sleep deprivation!)

Thanks dfz, I appreciate the input!

(whining like a baby right now) But I don't want to be "fiddling about"!


Is there such an option as salting the IPA out at this point with sodium chloride, or is that a moot point already because of the base already consisting of sodium hydroxide?

It's the ionic strength that forces the IPA out of the aqueous phase, and NaOH is more soluble than NaCl.

Give it a try, maybe you'll be better at managing OCD than I was

Another option would be to leave it all out to evaporate to dryness, followed by adding water and naphtha and carrying on.

That's what I figured...Thanks for the confirmation.



Lol!!! I kind of doubt that! But thanks for the vote of confidence.



Thank you sooooo much for this^^^^^^ little suggestion! I was pondering that possibility also...I think that is my very best option to save me from having to endlessly wade through a "fiddling about" stage, which my OCD would not appreciate whatsoever! Lol!!!

Many, many thanks!

Separating three different phases can be a bit tricky. I found the phase that gets removed has a habit of reappearing (which, of course, it would - Mr. Le Chatelier!)

I haven't tried drying a based solution but it should work. NaOH itself is pretty hygroscopic/deliquescent so you'll have trouble drying it at first. Given enough time, the NaOH will absorb CO2 from the air to make sodium carbonate anyhow and you could attempt a dry pull with the IPA.

Bubbling CO2 through the solution might speed things up a tiny bit - but now we're straying back into the realms of fiddling about...

Nice tutorial, I prefer the tek without lye; just vinegar, lime, and naptha.
Thanks for the good contribution!

Well, the hot & dry summer season arrived around these parts just in time (one of the many reasons why I tend to do extractions at this time of year, i.e., very hot & very dry).

It has evaporated and all that is left is a dark purple sludge with very low water percentage.

Now to simply choose what solvent I am going to use...

Wish me luck...I may not need it, but you never know!

I'd probably try stirring in anhydrous sodium carbonate to make a doughy paste and pulling that with naphtha or dry IPA.

Thank you for that suggestion DFZ...

I have sodium carbonate on hand at all times.

I prefer not to use it in extractions due to having experienced past problems with not being able to totally filter it completely out of the finished (or finished enough for me) product.

That being said, could you please provide me with the rationale behind your suggestion? I would greatly appreciate it since, if it saves me from fiddling about any more than I absolutely have to, I will tend toward putting the suggestion into action.

Again, I cannot possibly thank you enough for your kindness and help.

You probably had problems from slightly damp IPA dissolving some of the carbonate. In which case you'll preferably use naphtha, which won't dissolve any sodium carbonate.

My rationale was based on chemistry experience, and my being as interested in the process as in the product - regardless of any mire of endless tinkering it might drag me into .

Ahhhh soooo.....I now understand more completely and once again thank you profusely for your knowledge.

Yes indeed, this time around I am going to use some naphtha instead of my 99% IPA (of which my last full bottle has entirely evaporated out of its tightly-capped bottle!)

Well, all things are in place now for minimal fiddling...I have been exceedingly patient...I have a really good feeling about this...wish me luck.

More than luck, I wish you confidence and success - or is that the same thing?