zknarc wrote:I would have thought anti-psychotics would be the best bet. I have Seroquel and Lamictal available but have no intention of making myself a pharma guinea pig.
It would be nice if there was a psychedelic equivalent of Naloxone as a last ditch option if things got out of control.
Edit: one alternative option might be Bach Flower Rescue Remedy It's called Ketanserin, and it's almost exactly like a psychedelic-specific analogue to nalaxone. Ritanserin is another option. With pharmaceutical antipsychotics, in the case of Ayahuasca at least, you need to be concerned about blockade of the SERT protein. Blessings ~ND "There are many paths up the same mountain."
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Nathanial.Dread wrote:dreamer042 wrote:Harmalas are inverse agonists at the benzo (gaba-a) receptor, basically an anti-benzo. Therefore the benzo cheat isn't gonna save you here, that receptor is already filled.
Don't buy the ticket if you can't handle the ride. It could be more complicated then that, depending on the comparative affinities for the receptor as well as what the active sites are. Benzos are positive alosteric modulators, which means they bind somewhere other than the site of the endogenous ligand. If Harmala's bind somewhere else, it's not a question of filling the receptor, so much as it is which has a stronger effect. Even if they had the same binding site, if you found a benzo with a significantly higher affinity that the harmala, it should preferentially occupy the target site. That's why you can use something like risperdone to terminate an LSD trip: the Ki of LSD (a partial agonist) at the 5-HT2Ar is 2.9nM, while risperdone (an inverse agonist) has Ki=0.17nM. The question of how to terminate an ayahuasca trip is kind of a fun puzzle actually, since the set of bio-active molecules rocking around your brain is a little bit more complex then something like just psilocybin or just 25i. Ketanserin is probably your best bet, although good luck getting that OTC. Highly selective, high affinity 2A/C antagonist with very little other activity, apart from some antihistamine and antidopamine properties. Unlikely to play badly with an MAOI. You could deal with any anxiogenic effects with a high potency benzo: something like alprazolam or triazolam. Blessings ~ND This answer makes me ashamed of my crudness. But terminating a psychdelic trip via risperidone? Never had the guts to try this at home. Or even taking it for the lulz... I've seen the effects firsthand. Very sad, unless you find joy in being a lifeless zombie (but... but... that's the cure!1)
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Ufostrahlen wrote:Nathanial.Dread wrote:dreamer042 wrote:Harmalas are inverse agonists at the benzo (gaba-a) receptor, basically an anti-benzo. Therefore the benzo cheat isn't gonna save you here, that receptor is already filled.
Don't buy the ticket if you can't handle the ride. It could be more complicated then that, depending on the comparative affinities for the receptor as well as what the active sites are. Benzos are positive alosteric modulators, which means they bind somewhere other than the site of the endogenous ligand. If Harmala's bind somewhere else, it's not a question of filling the receptor, so much as it is which has a stronger effect. Even if they had the same binding site, if you found a benzo with a significantly higher affinity that the harmala, it should preferentially occupy the target site. That's why you can use something like risperdone to terminate an LSD trip: the Ki of LSD (a partial agonist) at the 5-HT2Ar is 2.9nM, while risperdone (an inverse agonist) has Ki=0.17nM. The question of how to terminate an ayahuasca trip is kind of a fun puzzle actually, since the set of bio-active molecules rocking around your brain is a little bit more complex then something like just psilocybin or just 25i. Ketanserin is probably your best bet, although good luck getting that OTC. Highly selective, high affinity 2A/C antagonist with very little other activity, apart from some antihistamine and antidopamine properties. Unlikely to play badly with an MAOI. You could deal with any anxiogenic effects with a high potency benzo: something like alprazolam or triazolam. Blessings ~ND This answer makes me ashamed of my crudness. But terminating a psychdelic trip via risperidone? Never had the guts to try this at home. Or even taking it for the lulz... I've seen the effects firsthand. Very sad, unless you find joy in being a lifeless zombie (but... but... that's the cure!1) Could not resist. Quoted from sanitarium by m etallica. "Keep him tired it makes him well, he`s getting better, can`t you tell?"
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concombres wrote:Ufostrahlen wrote:This answer makes me ashamed of my crudness. But terminating a psychdelic trip via risperidone? Never had the guts to try this at home. Or even taking it for the lulz... I've seen the effects firsthand. Very sad, unless you find joy in being a lifeless zombie (but... but... that's the cure!1) Could not resist. Quoted from sanitarium by m etallica. "Keep him tired it makes him well, he`s getting better, can`t you tell?" So fucked up. Whoever made a profit with risperidone should go straight to hell. May the fire purge his/her soul. It plays in the same league as selling crack to kids.
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... After a few hours (at least I think it was a few hours) [he] left the maloka and returned with some lemonade for me to drink. He explained that citrus juice helps to neutralize the ayahuasca. I’m not sure if it helped or not but there was something that did happen.
i kinda feel like that means after a few hours aka after the peak, it got easier....
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So Lemon is good for drink? If you get a bad trip, to improve the trip with lemon?
and for very very binding condition and big problem must get Ketanserin or Nalaxone?
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