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DMT salts. Options
 
BongWizard
#21 Posted : 10/20/2015 9:44:59 AM
null24 wrote:
Okay, this is off topic but maybe y'all can settle a point of curiosity for me, I ran across a sample a while back of 5MeoDMT. I don't have a picture, but it's consistency was crystalline though it was not freebase it was water-soluble, but it was very very fine so appeared to be almost "wet". It lumped together as I manipulated it, do any of y'all have an idea of what this would be would this be hydrochloride? It was an extremely clean sample obviously made with meticulous Laboratory techniques.

Sorry to hijack your thread guys, i've been curious about this for a while and this thread just piqued my interest again. Thanks.


It wouldn't have been HCl if it was crystalline. DMT HCl (and, presumably, 5-MeO-DMT HCl as well) is a resinous yellow compound with a typically oily consistency (due to it being quite hygroscopic, although this can be overcome with vacuum and a strong dessicant). It was, more likely, a well cleaned fumarate salt. While it could have been picrate or oxalate, these salts are not practical for most (given the difficulty associated with preparing the oxalate and the explosive nature of picric acid).

Fumarate, picrate and oxalate are the only crystalline salts of DMT for which I can find literature (though I haven't searched exhaustively) and I assume the chemistry would be much the same for the allylated tryptamines (though I may be wrong, and please correct me if I am).
"Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be a spirit of tolerance in the entire population." -Albert Einstein


I'm not a big fan of SWIM. I mean, I've never met the guy, but any time I hear about him, he's doing something sketchy.
 
null24
Welcoming committeeModerator
#22 Posted : 10/20/2015 6:46:06 PM
Thumbs up
Thanks!
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
*γνῶθι σεαυτόν*
 
endlessness
#23 Posted : 10/20/2015 7:27:51 PM
5-MeO-DMT HCl, unlike DMT, can easily crystallize and stay as a solid and(source, + blackmarket analysis results). So you might have had that.

Though in TIHKAL shulgin does describe one source claiming crystalline DMT HCl but even he himself couldn't get it to crystallize:

Shulgin wrote:
"As to salts, this last recipe above, taken from the literature, is the only claim of a valid hydrochloride salt of DMT. In the original synthesis, by Manske, the following description appears. "The hydrochloride could be obtained only as a pale yellow resin which, when dried in a vacuum desiccator over potassium hydroxide, became porous and brittle." I have found no attempts at its synthesis in the literature, and I have personally had no success at all. The picrate salt is well defined, used mostly for isolation and purification. The oxalate is used occasionally in animal studies. Early human studies involving the injection of solutions of the hydrochloride apparently made by dissolving DMT base in dilute aqueous HCl, and neutralizing this with base to achieve an end pH of appropriate 6. The fumarate is the salt specifically approved by the FDA for human studies, and this was the form used for human intravenous injection employed in the recent New Mexico studies."


There may be other salt forms that are solid, but we don't know yet. If anyone wants to experiment, feel free to share the results, but please be careful with the acids you are using.
 
KloudQ7
#24 Posted : 10/20/2015 7:43:49 PM
downwardsfromzero wrote:


KloudQ7 wrote:
gotta use 10-20 mg more than normal dmt in orange juice.

10-20 mg more than how much? This information would allow a reasonable deduction of which of the DMT citrates you have.


If you typically dose about 50 mg freebase then you probably have the mono-DMT citrate.
If you typically dose about 75 mg freebase then you probably have the di-DMT citrate.
If you typically dose about 100 mg freebase then you probably have the tri-DMT citrate.


I typically use around those measurements 50mg for light dose 75 medium and 100 strong

With this citrate it was more like 60-70 80-90 110-120
 
KloudQ7
#25 Posted : 10/20/2015 8:02:01 PM
endlessness wrote:


There may be other salt forms that are solid, but we don't know yet. If anyone wants to experiment, feel free to share the results, but please be careful with the acids you are using.


30% hcl is pretty gnarly, it steams on contact with air. Nasty fumes. Don't use indoors until diluted

Im probably going to stay away from it idk if id want to ingest any amount of that stuff

Citric acid all the way!
 
downwardsfromzero
ModeratorChemical expert
#26 Posted : 10/21/2015 1:02:47 AM
KloudQ7 wrote:
I typically use around those measurements 50mg for light dose 75 medium and 100 strong

With this citrate it was more like 60-70 80-90 110-120

This nicely illustrates pitubo's point about the limited value of the personal bioassay w.r.t. dosage/potency in this case Big grin Ah, well!
DMT content should be easy enough to determine through basing a known quantity with e.g. lime and extracting thoroughly with acetone. Evaporate and weigh resulting freebase. Maybe using an inert atmosphere.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
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