Loren Cordain mentions on his book that Paleolithic people did eat some grains, but only when there was a famine; it was not a staple. Gluten builds intolerance over time, and the real problem is that after the Paleolithic times, grains became a staple. This is how cities were built: because constant supply of food (grains) allowed that. It was not a staple, or even a regular food in the Paleolithic times.

Today, it's even worse: people start their day with cereal, they eat pasta for lunch, and pizza for dinner. And a donut for snack. This is wheat, with wheat, and some more wheat. People today are UNDER-NOURISHED because they don't eat enough real food. Not only wheat doesn't offer much in terms of nutrition, but it stops nutrients from other foods to be absorbed too (explained here http://io9.com/5968164/w...obably-stop-eating-wheat ).

Instead, if a less-manipulated version of grains was to be used rarely (e.g. 3-4 fermented-bread slices a week), then there would be no problem for new people, because tolerance wouldn't built on individuals as fast (gluten becomes a problem after a few years usually, manifesting as some random disease, after having too much of it). It's already too late for us, our immune systems can't handle it anymore. Staples are bad, no matter how you look at it. People must rotate their foods as much as possible in order to get as much nutrition as possible. This is why my daily plates always have over 10 species of veggies (raw and not), and both wild fish and pastured meat (with different fruits as desert). And it's not expensive! It's usually $5 per person. Overall, about $15 per day, per person.

Besides, just because Grok did a few grains, doesn't mean that it was healthy. They also ate things that were not particularly good. Heck, dogs and cats would also eat whatever they find, and you would think that their noses would tell them if something is poisonous for them or not. Why wouldn't Grok eat whatever he could find? Unfortunately, these noses don't tell them if a food is bad in the LONG run. That's the key with gluten. It's sneaky!

As I wrote in one of my comments above, the Paleo diet is simply based on evolution and research, not a single Paleolithic diet (especially since there wasn't a single Paleolithic diet). Today, we have numerous research papers on how terrible grains are for our health. Not to mention the thousands of anecdotal reports about its effects.

Regarding oats: make sure they're labeled as gluten-free. I was in Greece a few weeks ago, and passed by several grain fields. Wherever oats grew, wheat or rye were right next to it. They usually grow together, so be sure your oats are labeled as GF. Same goes for lentils (search for barley grains when you open their package).

As for rice, it's the least bad grain. I eat it twice a month with my sushi (along gluten-free soy sauce that I carry from home). But rice is not without its problems either. I can eat without a problem Japanese and Greek rice, but I'm having problems with Chinese and Indian rice. So it depends on the species too (same for a friend of mine who had similar health problems to mine). But overall, it's way down on the scale of badness compared to modern wheat IMHO.

Organic corn is not too bad either (GMO corn is pretty bad for different reasons though).

"Loren Cordain mentions on his book that Paleolithic people did eat some grains, but only when there was a famine; it was not a staple"

There is a lack of enough data for that to even be known atm.

here is an awesome video with some interesting information about why even other tropical primates and cows who eat lots of vegetation are actaully eating high fat diets.

http://vimeo.com/ondeman...isetraditionsuk/10533993

I think this guy downplays plant foods, but the rest of the information is interesting. Humans, to me anyway are obvious opportunistic omniivories.

^near the end of that video they talk about a study done where they did MRI scans of people brains over a period of time to study brain shrinkage and apparently vegans/vegetarians were over 6 times more likely to suffer brain shrinkage. This was only a 5 year period!

hahaaa i can just picture you saying that

I drink my coffee black, like my soul.

Refined sugar tastes like latex coating in my throat, I can't stand it.

Real maple syrup/sugar on the other hand, is delicious.

hahaha omg that's brilliant, I love you

lol

This study has been endlessly distorted by the media for years.The original study linked low B12 levels with brain shrinkage, not vegetarianism or veganism. It didn't even take diet into account whatsoever...

Basically the media got hold of it, heard vegans/vegetarians might be more likely to have b12 deficiency, and the study gradually turned into the twisted news story that's still circulated today. People just assume its true without looking into it

heres the original study all these news articles etc are talking about
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih....ortPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
"Vitamin B12 status and rate of brain volume loss in community-dwelling elderly."

it was also on only around 100 people, all ages 61-87...

so overall, extrapolating those results, like the media did, to the conclusion that the vegetarians/vegan diet results in serious brain shrinkage compared to those who eat meat is ridiculous. Its b12 levels that they studied, and even non-vegans/vegetarians can be deficient. I think its like 40+% of the population has b12 deficiency?

Anyways, lets not derail this thread by getting into b12.. lol

Did you know excessive N2O consumption leads to b12 deficiency

haha just kidding.
But it does.

--


Thanks changalavia , It makes me happy when someone recognizes my nefarious and passionate bond with the coffee bean.

So you tell me this AFTER i get my wisdom teeth out (during which i huffed like a fiend at the laughing gas)?!?!

^______^

yeah I never saw or heard of the study before uni other than what I saw in that video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_0NvcJZwa8

There is another interesting talk. I have not listening to the whole thing yet but there is a lot of good stuff at the start about gut flora and heavy metal toxicty etc.

Sorry this is getting away from the sugar issue..

What about pseudo grains? I recently went off a raw vegan diet but still eat fairly well (i think). I do eat buckwheat and amaranth daily though, I've often wondered what effects if any they have...

On the Paleo side of things, pseudo-grains are not allowed for various reasons: phytates, too many carbs, lectins, and in the case of quinoa/amaranth seeds: saponins (their greens are ok). However, IMHO, if someone already healthy, who doesn't indulge in these daily (e.g. no pseudo or real GF grains every day as a way to imitate the Standard American diet in a gluten-free way), I'd say they're ok to use occasionally. The key is moderation with these types of foods.

I had some gluten-free penne pasta the other night as my husband was begging me for it (we have it once a month, or so). Costco carries such a pasta for cheap (compared to specialized GF shops). It's made made with rice, non-GMO corn, quinoa and amaranth (all organic), and it tastes like real penne pasta: http://www.alwaysinwonde...en-free-penne-pasta.html

..i gave up sugar (as in refined sucrose) over a decade ago after deliberately trying it whilst on ayahuasca..

i was shocked at what i perceived it was doing to both my mental process and digestion..

since then i've read the increasing health reports..

but certainly, those who follow the more serious or stricter 'dietas' of the ayahuasca tradition avoid sugar..

if i eat sugar these days i feel unclear..

if my brain needs sugars i go for fruit or dates..
.

If you ferment grains or pseudo grains pretty much all the negative things people say abotu grains is not relevant any longer. All traditional cultures in the past I know of fermented the grains they ate..and yes even some hunter gatherer cultures ate and still do eat some grains and still they are usually found fermenting them..and there is ample evidence of people eating grains even through at least the second half of the paleolithic era. Native americans fermented corn before they ate it, celts fermented oats before they ate them..wheat was once always fermented before it was made into breads etc..

In parts of america native american people have been eating wild rice for a long long time..and yes they were largly a hunter gathere culture who practiced some horticulture, that is more like perma or ployculture than agriculture..something paleo man likely did as well.

http://www.westonaprice....umes-video-by-sarah-pope

Even people with celiacs have been found to tolerate fermented sourdoe bread.

You can look at the research Weston Price did studying skelatal structure of remains of indigenous peoples in the andes..people who ate corn and quinoa and potaotes etc..and the bone structure was perfect..nothing like us in the west with our deformed jaws and rotting teath and week skinny skelatal structures. I think us in the west living on our modern agriculture commerce based diets are more like a degraded subspecies of homo sapien sapien at this point compared to real hunter gatherer peoples.

This year I havent been drinking anything sweet or eating anything sweet unless its alive, or listening to music. Mostly to see how it impacts my mind and senses but also to stop tooth decay, which it did in short order (tooth decay from the sugar, not from playing marilyn manson too loudly ).
Its really quite interesting, not difficult after the first 2 or 4 weeks. Mind seems more alert and sensitive and food has more flavor.
Interesting little thing to explore.


Isnt that redundant, saying the media reported on a scientific study and grossly distorted it? Its not at all infrequent for me to see a study mentioned on a news site, read study myself, and find that the media not only interpreted it wrong but they said the opposite of what the study said!
Never trust the media in scientific matters.

75 days into a ketogenic diet, and I owe it all to Handel for prodding me to that direction.

1. Pain from Ankylosing Spondylitis completely disappeared (pain from damaged bone is still there, but inflammation and spreading of inflammation stopped completely).

2. Much more focused on tasks.

3. Bad mood when hungry completely disappeared (makes sense since insulin is now stabilised)

4. No strong cravings for snacks, food is nice but not a thing to kill for.

5. Blood pressure went down, not panting when swimming.

6. Triglycerides 1.0 (range: 0.8-2.1)

7. HDL 1.1 (range: 0.9-1.4)


Here's the mechanism on why carbohydrates can be detrimental (especially in combination with fat) :

http://blog.massivehealt...s/Carbs_are_killing_you/

I just had some espresso with my sugar.
Rapid turnover mean I can pretty much eat whatever I want.

(generally speaking)
If you find a diet that works for you and makes you feel better, good for you...
but don't try to tell me that it's "better" for me, you don't know that.

your doomed

Neural, very glad to hear you're doing so well!
Any luck with home-made bone broth btw, to repair the existing bone/muscle damage?