I'm confused, then
You said that you are utilizing this Sacrament to bypass physical reality
My personal understanding is that historically individuals have used other techniques, such as meditation, fasting, drumming, etc., to reach this transcendental state
Believe it or not, some individuals claim to have used their sacred text of choice to reach similar states of altered consciousness
You seem to have off-handly dismissed all of these practices in preference to DMT
Please explicate for me

I guess it is a little egotistical to say that another view is wrong. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not perfect and my views are probably wrong in some way. I'm continually trying to improve my outlook by reviewing the works and beliefs of others and integrating them into my own understanding.

That being said, while I have no personal experience praying 5 times a day for an entire lifetime, I have reviewed studies that involved people who do pray that often, or meditate regularly, or something similarly routine and mind-focusing. No study suggests that a state as powerful to the one produced by psychedelic entheogens can be achieved, as least in terms of brain physiology. Admittedly, there have been reports of a few, but nonetheless real and convincing "mystical states" that are similar in scope and level of intensity as psychedelic entheogens provide. These are few and scattered though, and so I still contend that entheogens are vastly more powerful than any regular prayer session.

Any experience that is as profound is usually precipitated by long fasting or dieting, or other extreme and relatively unhealthy acts. I don't believe they are necessary, when entheogens provide and easy and near-guaranteed profoundly spiritual experience-of-a-lifetime.

I am only lucky enough to have 2 Muslim friends, and both have used psychedelics. They agree that the experience is beyond Salat. I don't know any devote Buddhists, but both myself and my friends who practice meditation regularly agree that psychedelics provide a much more intense and profound experience.

I agree that just about all religions aim at similar goals: understanding the divine, practicing moral behavior as defined by their understanding of the divine, etc. I do not believe that any religion holds a candle to the profoundly spiritual experience that entheogens provide. The psychedelic experience is profoundly different, even if a religion and a entheogen-user are trying to achieve the same goal.

I misspoke when I said that they had different goals in mind. I am generally distrustful of ANY organized religion, but it is certainly possible that their goals are pure. The experience, however, is profoundly different. I do not believe in an alternative method that consistently provides the experience that psychedelics provide.

I, having had various entheogenic experiences myself, certainly agree w you on this point
Terence McKenna, of course, has made this concept quite famous

My original point, however, was not that Salah provides an experience on par intensity-wise w the N,N-DMT experience, but that Salah provides a historical precedent for the S.H.E.

I would most humbly disagree and say that you're wrong...there is nothing special about Islam that would set it as precedent for the SHE. If you want to make any statement along those lines, you might say that religious practices akin to Saleh and found in numerous religions strike similar chords as the SHE, but that's about as closely as you should reasonably tie it in. I'm not going to lie, i take offense to your statement that Saleh provides a historical precedent for the SHE, if only because you are clearly biased towards Islam. I take offense to you trying to tie it into religious dogma as well, but that's a much simpler point to understand.

What I mean is that, as far as "historical precedents" go, you could have picked something originating in cultures and religious practices older than Islam. That would have been more appropriate, as to deem something a "historical precedent" it should be the FIRST event of its kind, thus it sets the precedent. You did not follow history back to the beginning (there are similar things in the kabbalah of Judaism and other even more ancient practices) instead you chose to select a particular religion and say THIS is the precedent for your similar event. Therefore, you either have a bias towards Islam, making your point relevant only in that you have managed to call out some similarities between things in your life or you arbitrarily picked a religion to claim as precedent and therefore have no relevance whatsoever. To your claim of precedent, I say no it's not, I disagree with your statements, and find the man in that video to be another blathering religious figure.

Just so we're clear, I am not misinterpreting you. You are not misinterpreting me. Saleh DOES NOT provide a historical precedent for the SHE.

hope that helps clarify the ongoing discussion a bit.

peace
SB

Thank you, SnozzleBerry!
Points very well taken
I'll change the name of the thread accordingly

To help clarify, I have no special bias for Islam, and know next to no thing about it
I reached Siddiqui's video through my interest in sacred geometry and the zero-point field, both of which arose from my initial interest in entheogens

Magickpencil, I really admire your ability to stay civil and unoffended when faced with ridicule, and without sounding self-righteous too. That's a great quality to have, and you have it to a level that many of us here myself included are I expect still striving to achieve.

However I can't help but agree that the guy in that video is speaking absolute nonsense. He is trying to hide his ignorance behind nonsense, which is an old trick, but unfortunately he has not even yet learnt how to make at least reasonably convincing nonsense so he is even failing at being a false prophet. It concerns me to think that you may have been suckered by his babbling.

I personally that you would benefit from cultivating a healthy degree of scepticism... I would suggest you forget about religion for a while and focus on postmodern philosophy and physics theory. When you are primed in those areas, come back to spiritual philosophy.

And you guys who say that hyperspace is real... prove it! Otherwise it may come across as a little hypocritical to ridicule someone else's unproven beliefs.

Firstly, magickpenicl, I agree with ohayoco's praise and would like to welcome you to the community...


I don't have any concrete beliefs about hyperspace...every time I go it seems new and wonderful and strange and different, yet oddly familiar, but i would say this in response to the first part of the above quote:

You guys who say that waking life is real...prove it!

There is no ultimate truth, only ultimate questions, and there is always another level...

peace
SB

Haha, exactly! This is the attitude I like! Dreams within dreams Yes welcome Magickpencil, stick around

I can't accurately comment about the historical precedent for SHE, so I apologize if my rant was off topic from the OP. I was really just replying to the statement:


which seems different but not altogether contradictory to your later statement:


The OP also discusses the video with Siddiqui. I commented earlier that he was crazy. There may be a lot of truth to what he says, especially from an Islamic perspective. The problem I have with him is the same problem that I have with JZ Knight. I happen to agree with almost everything that JZ Knight says(exclude any accounts about "Ramtha" ). Despite this, I have chosen to ignore her because of her claims to have "channeling" abilities and the method she uses to spread her message. She has taken ideas that intelligent people have developed and warped it into a pseudo-cult to enthrall vulnerable people with money who are willing to listen. The same goes for Siddiqui. Nothing he said is new, and his reasons for preaching are obviously beyond that of good-will. I refuse to give credit to anyone like that. I fear most that some people will like the intelligent (albeit stolen) ideas that he preaches and then continue to listen to him when he begins to make up his own work. The man smells only of manipulation.

But like you said, magickpencil, the ideas should be judged for themselves. I would caution everyone to find those ideas elsewhere, though, as this Siddiqui is not the original source for any piece of knowledge.

Here's the way I see it:
I've meditated for a very long time in as many possible ways as I could, have also fasted (though nothing too extreme), and am a decent drummer.

These techniques won't get you anywhere as far as the neurotransmission will.

I feel it is important for a human [who feels the calling] to submit themselves to the hyperspatial flow over and over until they can no longer forget it.
So that WHEN they meditate, and fast, and drum, and cook, and sing, and sit, and drive, and talk,
they are aware of the details of the connection.

Enlightenment comes first, then comes the integration.
It's REALLY not the other way around!! (like Buddhism makes it out to be for example)

The "old school" techniques are great for the mind and body,
BUT
we live in evolved times
there are ways to go MUCH DEEPER now.

Personally, since I have been so deep so many times,
I can meditate, and fast, and drum
and see/feel the nature of hyperspace within everything.

I would never have been able to obtain this greatly enhanced perspective if I never submitted my soul to the flow that many times.
I also don't feel the need to ever go back, because every moment I am eternally there.
Of course, everything is subject to change...

This is just my perspective...this is just what I've experienced...
I am not dismissing, I am evolving.

They're not all supposed to do the smae thing or take you to the same place. They're different. Music and meditation are great practices for exploring mind and soul

Please digest what I have said.
I never said they'll take you to the same place......

Meditation takes you within.
The entheogenic CNS accelerators take you outside and into the scaffolding.
Music is the audible formation of frequencies that reflect from the construct of this entire symphonious existence.

My point?

Go out, to go back in.
Go as far as you can out,
so that you can equally go as deep within for the rest of your life.

Just my advice!



Once you've been so far outside
no matter what you do, no matter where you are
the wisdom//experience is there in every sensory data packet.


Sure, you don't need to go outside,
but then you'll never really know of these other possibilities,
no matter what any human says
the flow must be sailed by the self.

this guy is a pretentious wanna-be mass cult leader
whats all this bullshit about the heart chakra box with 19 points? wtf this guy needs to eat a cube of spice after some serious caapi tea

people like this make me lose faith in our potent species

he besmirches our reputation with his full spectrum hogwash

Instead of only just calling BS you might as well give more meaning to your post by adding some actual content that makes it worthwhile. It's not a shouting contest here...


Kind regards,

The Traveler