This is a sign that you one could be overdosing on these compounds. The symptoms of poisoning include: nausea vomitting abdominal pain pressure in chest restlessness tremor heavy perspiration diuresis dizziness delirium and death.

If you experience some of the above symptoms you are taking too much of this stuff.

Not to mention that both elemicin and safrole have the potential cause DNA mutations and this is well documented.

Furthermore the idea that elemicin and safrole are being metabolized into their corresponding amines is baseless. In fact all evidence points out that this is NOT the case:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16885726

Yes, I've often heard people say they need at least 1 week between LSD usage in order to avoid tolerance. SWIM can use LSD every 4 days with absolutely no tolerance to it at all. This varies from person to person. We are all made a little different. The digestive system is very complex, and each person removes toxins at a slightly different rate. So these time frames should be taken as a general guideline only. There is no time frame that works for everyone. That’s true for all drugs. Also your diet, your level of exercise, etc., can also play a part in how long tolerance to a substance lasts.

I've seen this. This is covered earlier in this thread, which you must have missed.

There is little evidence that it applies to man especially when the whole oils are consumed in food.

They tested massive amounts of pure safrole and elemicin on the pour rats. Elemi oil contains things that are now believed to protect against cancer, such as d-limonene (the main compound in it), and so taking the whole oil is very different then injecting a rat with tons of pure elemicin.

So, yeah, there are risks, but you need to put them into perspective. A rat given a ton of safrole or elemicin is very different than a human ingesting a little bit of sassafras oil or Elemi oil. Humans do not have digestive systems that are identical to rats, and it’s been argued that the potential carcinogenicity of safrole and elemicin in humans is way overblown. From what I understand, alcohol is actually more carcinogenic than safrole or elemicin might be in humans. Yet some people drink alcohol everyday in quantities that are hundreds of times the overdose levels of safrole or elemicin, and many still don't get cancer.

Elemi oil is approved by the FDA as a food additive. It's used as a flavoring.

SWIM is making some elemi candy

He's using a candy mold that makes candies like those pictured below. It's a "Truffles Candy Mold" model number 2115-1521 made by Wilton.

He used the white candy melts as the base. He used 8 of them, melted in a microwave for about 70 seconds, and then mixed it. To the melted candy he added 0.55 ml (approximately 19-24 drops) of elemi oil into it. It was easy to mix it, about as easy as mixing it into honey. He then poured the candy into the candy mold, which was easy. He tapped the mold a few times to remove a few tiny air bubbles. The mix filled exactly 3 of the 14 truffle candy molds.

The candy is currently setting. SWIM is excited to try it! Each candy contains about 0.18 ml (about 6-7 drops). That's a very light dose.

Hopefully the candies harden. With the added oil, they might not harden. We'll see.

UPDATE: the candy did not completely harden. When handled it leaves a slight smear of candy on your fingers. Clearly too much oil was used. Next time 1/2 as much oil will be tried. It's just hard enough that it can be easily handled, keeps its shape, and can be individually wrapped and saved for later use, so this is acceptable. It would be nicer if it was hard enough that it wouldn't smear at all on your fingers. But then, even chocolate will smear if you hold it long enough. It's almost hard enough, but not quite. If you don't touch it, it holds its shape and looks very nice. It's not soft, it's hard, but it just smears easily.

For those interested in the details here, the 8 candies together with the oil weighed a total of 25.232 grams. The oil makes up 484 mg of the candy's total weight so it's 1.9% of the candy by weight. Maybe 1% will produce much harder candy. SWIM will try that next time.

Yeah, it does not look like the carcinogenic compounds formed by rat's metabolism of safrole is formed in humans. A study was unable to find the two compounds in question, 1'-hydroxysafrole and 3'-hydroxyisosafrole, in human urine: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14422

That study is from 1977 and since then they have been detected. See the paper I linked too I believe they were detected.

Furthermore human cytP450 enzymes can make those metabolites in vitro:

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/tx040001v

I am not saying there is any proof that safrole causes cancer in humans because there isn't. But its a potential risk that people should be aware of.

I also find it kind of ironic ron that you once started a heated debate about the potential carcinogenicity of LSD but are quick to casually toss off evidence of safrole being carcinogenic. I am just pointing it out.

Burnt, the level needed for safrole to be potentially carcinogenic is a massive amount. Humans don't take that much. Pretty much anything is bad for you if you overdo it. It's risk is blown way out of proportion. I talked about this earlier in the thread. Please read the rest of the thread. I hate go over this again since it's already been covered.

The whole thing is pretty much nonsense when taken into perspective.

And there is NO study that shows LSD in massive amounts is not carcinogenic. It too is probably bad for you in massive amounts.

No human takes the required amount of safrole to reach the potentially carcinogenic dose of it. No one does. Look at the data and calculate how much safrole you need for that.

Also, no one drinking root beer made from sassafras oil containing large amounts of safrole was ever found to develope cancer from it. No one drinking sassafras tea has been found to develop cancer from that either. The reason is that people just don't consume the massive amounts of safrole required for it to be potentially carcinogenic.

The fact is that alcohol is more carcinogenic than safrole. I believe these are just scare tactics put out by anti-drug propaganda groups.

If safrole was more carcinogenic than alcohol, then maybe I'd be concerned, but its not. Look at the numbers and caclulate just how much safrole a human needs for it to potentially be carcinogenic and you'll be shocked at just how ridiculous this whole subject is.

Burnt, I already researched this. Take a look at the numbers and you'll be shocked.



The often reported 200 mg of safrole per cup used in scare tactics spread by the FDA is incorrect. 32 mg of safrole is the maximum solubility per cup for room temperature water. And it often contains less because it distills away easily.

Note that the margin-of-safety factor of 100 means that the actual predicted number is 66.66 mg/kg and not 0.66 mg/kg. 66.66 mg/kg puts the dose at 4999.5 mg for a 75 kilogram adult! WOW! That’s a big difference when you look at it like that. These numbers are inflated on purpose to detour usage of sassafras even though 1 cup cannot possibly contain that much safrole. This is bad science at work. It’s been purposefully manipulated to make it look worse than it actually is.

No one will ever take 4999.5 mg of pure safrole. NO ONE. That's a massive amount. That's the amount needed to be potentially carcinogenic in man according to those lab tests.

The dangers are way overblown. It's a bunch of nonsense if you ask me.

This is a classic example of bad science being abused to make a drug look more dangerous than it actually is.

At 32 mg per cup of tea, you'd need to have 156 cups of sassafras tea to approach the predicted potentially carcinogenic dose of safrole.

No body drinks that much of it. Even in using pure sassafras oil to get high from it, people will not take that much.

It's way less risky than drinking alcohol.

Keep in mind that Elemi oil does NOT contain safrole at all. The active incredient in Elemi oil is elemicin. The potential risk for elemicin is even lower than that of safrole, so no, I am not at all concerned.

Now with the possibility that elemicin is aminated to TMA in humans, as many believe, then if that's true this whole subject doesn't even apply to it.

I have tested Elemi oil on 3 different occasions. The first time was 7 drops mixed with a little honey. For me no noticeable effects. 2 or 3 days later i tried putting 15 drops on my tongue then swallowing it, also with no effects. Tomarrow i plan on putting 20 drops in some sort of pill capsule. My last time trying some was 2 weeks ago.

It might be my source of elemi oil. Its a local store, but it says its un-diluted and 100% pure.

I would try a different brand. Some elemi oil is very weak, some is very strong. It varies from like 1% all the way up to 20% elemicin.

ELEMI CANDY UPDATE
SWIM tried his elemi candy today. Unfortunately it was very hot today, about 95F, and the candies were affected by the heat. They couldn’t be handled at all and had to be eaten with a spoon.

On the plus side the taste was actually pretty good. The candy base was the white candy melts, which are vanilla flavored. The elemi flavor went very well with the candy. I could easily see people eating a bunch of these and having no idea they are psychedelic. So keep them away from children!


EFFECTS
The trip came on fast, within about 30 minutes. The peak was very hard to determine, but seemed to be at around 2-4 hours. During the peak, while out at the park, SWIM says there were very obvious visual effects. Things looked swirly, a little warped, sort of acid like. There were also mild dark CEVs.

Something that’s been noticed with these higher doses is that there’s definitely a sedative effect for the first 90 minutes or so. Apparently there’s something active other than elemicin that’s got sedative effects which is becoming noticeable at these larger doses. This sedative is preventing the euphoria and stimulation of elemicin from being felt for the first 90 minutes. It makes you feel a little withdrawn. After the sedative effects are gone, the mild stimulant effects and euphoric affects of elemicin are then felt. At lower doses, the sedative effect is not present with SWIM’s Elemi oil.

I wonder what this sedative is.


SUMMERY OF ELEMI CANDY TEST
* the candy worked, but was not solid enough, there was too much oil in it.
* the candy tasted pretty good.
* at 0.55 ml (about 20 drops) visual effects are extremely obvious. It’s clearly hallucinogenic, but still a very mild dose.
* at 0.55 ml a sedative present in the oil is felt for the first 90 minutes of the trip. So there’s at least 1 other psychoactive present in Elemi oil other than elemicin that’s sedating.

I know this has been discussed previously but I am bringing it up again anyway because I have some more comments.

Is this referring to asingle doses or chronic use? Or its referring to the dose given to animals in animal studies? But you have to realize the purpose of such animal studies is not always to figure out how likely a substance is to cause cancer in humans but sometimes to simply answer the question of can it cause cancer in experimental animals. The next step is then to figure out mechanisms and do epidemological studies etc. Although animal studies can give quantitative risk assessments its not the whole story.



I don't believe this is scare tactics but probably an estimate of the maximum amount of safrole possible in tea. The 32mg per cup is that based on solubility of safrole? Because the solubility can change in teas which contain substances which can help solubilize other substances better. Just curious where these numbers are coming from.



Agree that's a massive dose but your conclusion is totally misleading. All it takes is one carcinogenic molecule to get cancer. But in reality we are all exposed to carcinogens fairly regularly so in essense its an odds game. The more carcinogens you are exposed to, as well as genetic and dietary/lifestyle factors, the more likely you are to get cancer.

So it doesn't matter if you take 1mg of safrole its still potentially carcinogenic. Thats how carcinogens work. There is no cancer causing dose. However if you take 200mg obviously the risk is higher. It works like this.



I don't think this happens at all. But thats another discussion which I think we should have but later.


Now as far as claiming there is no evidence that safrole causes cancer in humans this is simply not true.

Betel nut chewing (which certain kinds contain safrole 15mg/g) has been linked to oral cancer in humans:

http://carcin.oxfordjour.../content/full/20/12/2331

And Areca quids:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15661610

http://www.sciencedirect...0128c7ea9d08d072a6fb5adc



Again I would like to reaffirm that the risk of cancer from drinking sassafrass tea is probably low. No studies that I am aware of found a significant risk and since its been banned its even harder to say. However there are also no studies that demonstrated that drinking the tea is safe long term either.

There are other confounding factors such as other compounds in the tea which change the metabolism of safrole making it less risky when compared to pure safrole or vise versa. There are many other factors that could come into play.

Basically the reason I am posting all this is to point out that taking safrole is not without risk. Don't pretend that its harmless.

https://dmt-nexus.me/for...aspx?g=posts&t=13167
As shown there, a lot of terpenes are AChE inhibitors, could explain some of the 'mixed' effects of nutmeg and elemi oil.

20 drops in honey different brabd that other had success with... 2weeks since last trying...
very little effects...

No this is not the case with safrole. You need a certain level of it before it gets metabolized appropriately. Safrole alone is not at all carcinogenic. A metabolite of it is said to be potentially carcinogenic. And that metabolite supposedly requires a certain amount of safrole to be made, so you do need a certain dose of it. It's a metabolite of safrole, not safrole itself that is supposed to be carcinogenic. That makes a huge difference, and some people even today still debate whether or not that the metabolite is even made in man.

Anyway, this argument is not what this thread is about. If you want to discuss the potential carcinogenicity of safrole based on animal tests, maybe you can make a thread for that specifically. I’m personally bored of reading about this. There is almost no new information about this. I’m far more interested in the potential psychedelic effects of safrole and similar molecules. All drugs have risks. All the food we eat has potential carcinogens in it. A thread devoted to that is more useful. This thread is devoted to the psychedelic effects of safrole and similar compounds, and this subject of safrole’s potential carcinogenic effects has already been brought up several times, with nothing new to say about it.

Yes, but I wonder which ones specifically are doing it. Maybe they could be removed if it was known which ones were doing it.

Some elemi oil may be distilled in such a way that these other undesirable compounds are increased, while some manufacturers might actually be producing oils that are higher in elemicin purely from their distillation techniques.

Dorge, a few times, using the exact same batch (SWIM has been using the exact same batch of Elemi oil for all of these tests), SWIM’s Elemi oil produced almost no effects. It seems like digestion has a lot to do with it.

If the theory that TMA is made in the body from elemicin is correct and that TMA is actually the active, then it stands to reason that sometimes the body doesn’t produce TMA from elemicin all that well and sometimes the conversion actually fails. This might play a big role here.

Today I tried the Elemi oil as well.

After I woke up from a 10 hours sleep, I prepared my Elemi oil by dripping 20 drops into a OOO capsule. I took the cap with a glass of water on an empty stomach. The gelcap popped rather fast in my belly because within a few minutes I burped my first fragrance.

Right after that I took a glass of liquidly porridge (Brinta for those who want to know) followed with a cup of coffee to activate my digestive tract.

Within 10 minutes(!) of swallowing the gelcap I could feel the effects coming on. I could feel a tension build up together with a slight euphoria, pretty much like I have with the onset of LSD. Then, probably because I took 20 drops, a sedation came on, and like 69ron stated it made me feel a little withdrawn. I didn't like to talk to my GF anymore but just wanted to stare in front of me doing nothing. Reading from the screen of the laptop became more difficult because I needed more concentration to read what was on the screen. When I looked at my GF I could see slight visuals surrounding her. With my eyes closed there were visuals too, of the wavy/flickering kind.

Then the sedative effect came more and more into play, pushing away any of the euphoria and energetic tension I had, it also pushed away any visuals. This lasted for about 4 hours with the sedative peak at the 1 hour mark then slowly subsiding.


So to resume: the elemi oil worked but when the sedative effect fully kicked in it was the only thing left. The sedative effect wasn't unpleasant but I couldn't see any use for it either.

Next time I will take just 10 drops and see how that will effect me, if the sedative effects stay away I could see this as a nice compliment of my entheogen use.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

Going back to this, at about 0.55 ml (about 20 drops), SWIM’s oil is showing sedative effects at the onset, which last about 90 minutes. It’s not unpleasant, but SWIM doesn’t like it. At 10 drops, the sedative effect is not really noticed, just the euphoric stimulant effects of elemicin are felt. I think going higher in dosage than 0.55 ml is going to make this sedative effect increase. That’s not something SWIM is looking forward to. He generally dislikes sedatives.

Other than removing these other sedative compounds by distillation or some other way, is it possible to boost the potency of just the elemicin? Is there any compound known to increase the potency of these kinds of oils?

Elemicin is not an alkaloid so taking harmaline with it is not really going to boost the effects much. It will alter the effects, making it sort of ayahuasca like, but it doesn’t really boost the effects much.

Coffee boosts the effects a little, and so does a few Datura stramonium seeds, but the boost is small.

Does anyone know of any such compound? Maybe something known to boost the effects of nutmeg might work, if there is such a thing.