Odd, is a tempered reference to deep mystic experiencing delivered by intentional use of plant medicines!

Peace

I'm from the UK and 'odd' just means 'weird' or 'strange'.

Sure. Just implying that it only just hints at the magnitude of queerness often delivered by, "mixed wines"(enthoegens). For many, once familiarized with SD headspace via smoke, quidding will deliver the "shy deer", particularly in dim, meditative quietude. OP, you seem to know the "quid tek". I suspect you'll soon be able to conjure, Ska Maria Pastora, with @4-5 leaf quid.

Peace

I would like to return to quidding as I have read that it can lead to a more mellow experience with Salvia. But I'm not sure I can get enough leaf for Salvinorin to pass the blood brain barrier without using a lot of it. Not sure. I've got a 5grm bag left of the stuff, but with smoking it in my bong I can use less than half a gram. One thing I haven't tried is letting the chewed leaf sit in the mouth for 20 minutes or longer. Apparently, it's the action of the saliva that helps get the Salvinorin transport itself through the gland tissues of the mouth. When I chew the leaf, which is pretty much broken up anyway, the mixture gets smaller and smaller and then suddenly I am not generating much salvia as it becomes a sticking-to-the-teeth exercise and the stuff gettiung stuck around the top gums. The stops me from quidding the stuff. I think the dried leaf is not for quidding, as I have been told.

Grow a few plants if you can obtain. You'll get enough leaves to last a long time. Chewing fresh leaves is the best quidding method. Rehydrated, dried leaves do indeed retain potency for quidding. You don't appear to be a SD "hard head", as smoked plain leaf gave you effects. Remember, with quids the visitation is subtle, yet, rather profound and far from placebo once familiar.

Peace

This is what I have derived from my many experiences with SD. The very first time I smoked it I could tell very quickly that it was a deadly serious plant teacher...no "ha ha ha's" or giggles in Her classroom, no sir.
I also learned rather rapidly about the utterly and fantastically strange bodily perceptions it can induce.

I tend to pull out S. divinorum once every year or two or three...At those times when I feel that I am in the right space for deep, spirit world journey.

I read that Salvia Divinorum is a plant which prefers to be consumed through quidding. This requires between 1-10 grams of dry leaf matter so it requires more when administered sublingually than if you are going the smoking route. The original poster said that he smoked less than a gram of salvia. .75 grams is considered a high dose on erowid, but the dose range is so small.

I read that smoking a higher dose of Salvia is less frightening because your ego is quickly oblitherated so there is nothing left of you to feel fear. So you may want to consider smoking more.

I would strongly advise you to take up quidding. That is how the Mazatek's consume Salvia. They think that westerners are crazy for smoking it and that this is disrespectful towards the spirit of salvia. Kathleen Harrison concurs. I would stop smoking it if you did not enjoy that. Quidding is supposed to be more tranquil and it is the traditional way, much easier to get the dose right as well.

Also, the original poster keeps saying that salvia is toxic. Salvinorum A is not toxic. Actually, I have read that it is a healing plant and can help fight AIDS and cancer. It is however the most potent natural psychedelic compound in existence being active at 200 micrograms I think. Just because you have an ego dissolving experience does not mean that you have been posioned. In fact, psychedelic plants are not the same thing as posionous plants. I had an ego dissolving trip on ayahuasca once and it was quite unnerving so I have an inkling of what it is you are feeling. The trip feels like forever. Falling apart on psychedelics happens, but fighting the experience is never the right thing to do.

I have never taken Salvia. I am thinking about aquiring some and trying this stuff soon. And that it is good in combination with ayahuasca. Salvia is a fascinating plant. Scientists did a DNA sequence on Salvia and out of like 800 plants in the genus Salvia Salvia D was like the only plant where they had no idea of it's genetic heritage. The plant does not produce seeds really so it grows through cloning. This means all the Salvia D's are the same strain. They require humans to spread them or a twig falls off and grows by itself I guess. How did they evolve? Did aliens bring them to earth? I wonder.

I can totally understand how some people could feel this^^^way with regards to S. divinorum.


It certainly does not induce some kind of "euphoric high" or "pleasant experience".
Again, it is a rather serious teacher plant who does not mess around.

One does not ingest S. divinorum for "shits & giggles"; it is definitely NOT a "party drug" by any means.

Do you know what the 'pins and needles' thing is about?

I have no idea, but as a well-seasoned entheogenic veteran, I have learned to not try to figure things out so much. I have faith that I will receive what I need to learn and let the rest go. Otherwise, one could be tortured for the rest of one's life with all the questions that psychedelics engender.

They certainly produce many more questions than answers.

I have a background in the Socratic method. What so wrong about asking questions and finding out the truth?

There is nothing wrong with asking questions. It is the expectation of answers that drive many people insane.

ps, study this thread! Salvia Droid's art, in particular, illustrate the ENIGMA that is Salvia, or any deep psychedelic experience. There are no words! These can be trans-personal, trans-linguistic, trans-temporal and trans-spatial journeys, for even the most seasoned. There comes a point when the dialectic fails to yield fruit. The buzzards have picked the carcass clean.

My suggestion, read, study(most questions have already been discussed) and, most importantly, EXPERIENCE FOR YOURSELF. After a year or two of self tutelage, you be the teacher!. We are all students here, bring us YOUR wisdom.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=70887

Peace

The artwork is really good.

protostar, suspect you're over personalizing DB's comment on your apt description of Salvia space. It may indeed be the "havoc wreaked" on ones psyche and soma that makes SD such an intriguing plant medicine ally. Reminding presumed psychedelic naifs that the entheogen induced mystic state can be less than recreational is merely wizened pontificating. Welcome to the food fight, gird your loins, it's often jarring, but seldom injurious.

Peace

Please don't take anything I have stated personally...

It was simply an observation culminating from many years of work with the plant ally S. divinorum.


It is NOT an ally for everyone.

Precisely.


Peace

I wish that I had an answer for you protostar, I really do....

From my experience, entheogens in general provoke more and more questions and very few, if any answers. I would have to say that, for me, perhaps the most important lessons I have learned are

1) We create our own heaven or hell on a moment to moment basis, constructed from all the little, seemingly insignificant decisions that we make every day, be they conscious or unconscious decisions.

2) Always clean your room, keep your house in order and always keep a daily routine. This will create sanity, literally. And the more sane we are, the more we're able to spread beauty and love around to others, which I feel is light years more important than any kind of enlightenment.

3) As far as enlightenment goes, psychedelics don't create it. Believe me, I've tried. If psychedelics created enlightenment, I'd be one of the most enlightened beings on the planet right now and I am not. Like anything else in life, psychedelics are tools that can help or hinder you on your path through life, akin to a good chainsaw or gun. One must be very careful when using these tools, and some people just don't have the self-responsibility and self-discipline to handle them at all.

I don't know what else to say right now, but if I think of anything else constructive to add later, I will.

Peace

protostar, your last question segues to the fascinating topic of entheogen use as a catalyst for "enlightenment". I've found the linked website rather informative. Study it a bit if so inclined.
http://www.egodeath.com/...ligion.htm#_Toc177337621

Remembering that the term "enlightenment", as classically used references a fairly definable and rationally perceivable, set of concepts and worldview MENTAL MODEL. In contrast to the post-1960s, "New Age" concept of enlightenment that is vague, poorly defined, difficult to "achieve" and predicated on living a "good" life during non-mystic state consciousness existence. This is NOT to belittle that goal, only to indicate that during the long swath of human antiquity(since end of last ice age @13,000y), we have inherited a well described, archetypally rich "theory" of enlightenment that represents an alternative worldview, transcendent v egoic, that was and still can be reliably accessed via use of entheogens.

Study this website for a few weeks. We'll start another thread, maybe. I'd add that this archetypal mental model is NOT about access to TRUTH that ONLY the initiated possess. Merely an alternative conceptual reference frame for relating to and understanding the deep mystery of life, time/space and ultimate controllership of what we generally experience as who we are...the ego. Interestingly, introduction to and repeated exposure to this reference frame has been intimately associated with the use of entheogens!

Peace