Quote:10-20 doses of lsd didn't completely transform the environment into something unrecognizable, and cause amnesia That could also describe DMT Every day I am thankful that I was introduced to psychedelic drugs.
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hixidom wrote:Quote:10-20 doses of lsd didn't completely transform the environment into something unrecognizable, and cause amnesia That could also describe DMT ha, touché "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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LibertyforAll wrote:Datura isn't even a plant that people who use plants (like us) like to use ...
Absolutely silly to declare it illegal. I've got one potted and I hardly ever use it, but the flowers do make for an interesting changa and the seeds can be useful. Salvia's been illegal here.
That word. 'Illegal'
It is the cause of so much suffering and persecution in the world Datura [jimson weed] grows naturally in much of the usa in fields and ditches all over the usa .. they will have to arrest [mother nature]  for datura that wont effect it... Datura isnt a substance many people will abuse anyway...
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Starway6 wrote:Datura [jimson weed] grows naturally in much of the usa in fields and ditches all over the usa .. they will have to arrest [mother nature]Very happy for datura that wont effect it... I would argue that everything is mother nature. What does growing in the ground got to do with anything? To the uninformed general public, and even occasionally to the informed, datura is a tremendously dangerous and risky substance. Unless you do an extraction (I had not seen a tropane alkaloid tek until I searched for it, and I seriously doubt the types of reckless teenagers that would want to try datura are going to perform one), the alkaloid content varies incredibly from plant to plant... and overdose is a real possibility here! Not to mention getting so delirious that you do something reckless... check out erowid! Case in point. On the other hand, like Travsha mentioned, you can buy anti-nausea/vertigo pills that contain scopolamine at any pharmacy or even grocery in some cases. It is totally valid that by making it illegal, teens are going to think it must be awesome and then proceed to overdose on motion sicknessness tablets and get arrested for evading a police chase buck nekked. Maybe sometimes harm reduction is the lesser evil. Kids will be kids. Once in a while, you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
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Hmm....one of the schedule one prerequisites is "high potential for abuse" ...I don't see high abuse potential with datura species, which do grow as a weed in many places. ...in San Francisco I noticed brugmansia trees growing all through out the city, yet how often do you hear of poisoning related to this plant? When I lived In Florida, there were reports of kids trying to get high on atropa belladonna, and actually dying from it...yet I don't believe Florida scheduled belladonna... (Artopa belladonna contains the same compounds found in datura) I have tried the plant (datura stramonium; brugmansia; belladonna) on three occasions, every single experiance was horrible, full of "ghost cigarettes" "phantom friends" and a night full of strange scenes that only existed in my mind, pure delerium, there's restlessness, shakes, urinary retention, and hallucination, but not in a positive way... And while I can understand some shamanic use, recreational use seems highly unlikely...the only people who really use this plant are young people who have never tried it and think they will get high, or shamanic type folks.... Quote:medical uses for atropine
Involuntary nervous system blocker
It can treat heart rhythm problems, stomach or bowel problems, and certain types of poisoning when injected. It can also decrease saliva before surgery and dilate the pupils before an eye exam.
Quote:Hyoscine hydrobromide, also known as scopolamine hydrobromide, is a medication used in the treatment of motion sickness and postoperative nausea and vomiting. One common side effect is drowsiness. Wikipedia Quote:Hyoscyamine
Common brands: Levsin, Oscimin, HyoMax-SL
Anti-tremor and gut antispasmodic
It can treat muscle cramps in the bowels or bladder. it can treat symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), colitis, and other digestive problems. It can treat pain caused by kidney stones or gallstones, and muscle problems related to Parkinson's disease. It can treat irritation of the nose. It can treat stomach ulcers. It can also treat anticholinesterase poisoning. So almost all of its compounds have medical use, though the plant itself does not... I honestly don't feel that it should have been scheduled, and while I won't miss it by any means, I could never agree that it's ok to outlaw a plant. -eg
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entheogenic-gnosis wrote:...So almost all of its compounds have medical use, though the plant itself does not... Everything can be a medicine or a poison; it all depends upon dosage. entheogenic-gnosis wrote:...I could never agree that it's ok to outlaw a plant... I wholeheartedly agree...It is absolutely ludicrous to outlaw a plant (of ANY kind), period. Freedom's so hard
When we are all bound by laws
Etched in the scheme of nature's own hand
Unseen by all those who fail
In their pursuit of fate
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It's actually really sad to.see salvinorin-a and the other salvinorin compounds become scheduled... Salvinorin-a is a trans-neoclerodane Diterpenoid hydrocarbon, it's not an alkaloid or an amine, it contains no nitrogen, and Salvinorin A is the first naturally occurring non—nitrogenous, non-alkaloid, kappa opioid receptor agonist. (I've also heard that the salvia divinorum plant was a cultivar, which adds another element of novelty to the situation) So it really is a unique compound... (The only other psychoactive which comes to mind which is plant derived and is not an alkaloid or an amine is delta-9-tetrahydro-cannabinol, which is a diterpenoid hydrocarbon...) I actually love salvinorin-a. Quote:I had just obtained the salvinorin-a and went into a tunnel where I would often smoke marijuana, it's an isolated place, no worries about the public or police. I loaded a fairly large bowl of the salvinorin-a infused leaf into my marijuana pipe and cashed it in a single hit...
The bricks on the wall began to form a pyramid like structure in my visual field, a rush of cold pins and needles moved over my skin as I slowly lost contact with my body and the outside world, the pyramid structure became more defined, it was an Aztec pyramid, with vines and jungle surrounding it. I looked around I saw I was surrounded by small creatures, they were shaped like upside down horse-shoes or like a lower-case letter "n", they had feet at each point of the "n" shape of their body, large black eyes, and funny little arm like appendages that were warped around a stick which was resting across their "shoulders" with a bucket full of water on either end of the stick. All these little beings were carrying these pales of water up the pyramid steps. The communicated in this squeaky high-pitch ossiclation of frequencies which were packed with telepathic significance, I followed them to the top of the pyramid, where a river was running down the back, they were all dumping their buckets f water into this river, which I jumped into, I felt wet, and blind, and as if I were falling...then I came back to baseline reality.
Another time I smoked in my friends garage, after I exhaled I saw a multicolored river pouring over the white van that was parked next to me, this river type thing began at the top of the shelf and at its mouth sat several of these whacky, goofy, constantly moving and jumping and bouncing and making noise elf type creatures, all their bodies had odd shapes, one was shaped similar to a pipe wrench, the other was several odd angles all intersecting, it's hard to describe them, but I realized they were throwing this color changing rainbow like stuff into the "river" that was pouring down the shelf over the vans windshield and roof like wind, and out the garage door, these creatures were again squeaky and loud. They were having their own insane party of coloring this river...
-EG ; early salvinorin-a report
I'm actually very sad to hear that salvia is becoming scheduled... It's one of those compounds that is "not for everybody", it's not necessarily pleasant, it's not a good recreational compound, but it does have value for a very specific set of people who can recognize and use this compound properly... Sad stuff...another beautiful but misunderstood plant and its compounds fall victim to drug-war over-kill... -eg
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entheogenic-gnosis wrote:It's actually really sad to.see salvinorin-a and the other salvinorin compounds become scheduled... Salvinorin-a is a trans-neoclerodane Diterpenoid hydrocarbon, it's not an alkaloid or an amine, it contains no nitrogen, and Salvinorin A is the first naturally occurring non—nitrogenous, non-alkaloid, kappa opioid receptor agonist. (I've also heard that the salvia divinorum plant was a cultivar, which adds another element of novelty to the situation) So it really is a unique compound... (The only other psychoactive which comes to mind which is plant derived and is not an alkaloid or an amine is delta-9-tetrahydro-cannabinol, which is a diterpenoid hydrocarbon...) I actually love salvinorin-a. Quote:I had just obtained the salvinorin-a and went into a tunnel where I would often smoke marijuana, it's an isolated place, no worries about the public or police. I loaded a fairly large bowl of the salvinorin-a infused leaf into my marijuana pipe and cashed it in a single hit...
The bricks on the wall began to form a pyramid like structure in my visual field, a rush of cold pins and needles moved over my skin as I slowly lost contact with my body and the outside world, the pyramid structure became more defined, it was an Aztec pyramid, with vines and jungle surrounding it. I looked around I saw I was surrounded by small creatures, they were shaped like upside down horse-shoes or like a lower-case letter "n", they had feet at each point of the "n" shape of their body, large black eyes, and funny little arm like appendages that were warped around a stick which was resting across their "shoulders" with a bucket full of water on either end of the stick. All these little beings were carrying these pales of water up the pyramid steps. The communicated in this squeaky high-pitch ossiclation of frequencies which were packed with telepathic significance, I followed them to the top of the pyramid, where a river was running down the back, they were all dumping their buckets f water into this river, which I jumped into, I felt wet, and blind, and as if I were falling...then I came back to baseline reality.
Another time I smoked in my friends garage, after I exhaled I saw a multicolored river pouring over the white van that was parked next to me, this river type thing began at the top of the shelf and at its mouth sat several of these whacky, goofy, constantly moving and jumping and bouncing and making noise elf type creatures, all their bodies had odd shapes, one was shaped similar to a pipe wrench, the other was several odd angles all intersecting, it's hard to describe them, but I realized they were throwing this color changing rainbow like stuff into the "river" that was pouring down the shelf over the vans windshield and roof like wind, and out the garage door, these creatures were again squeaky and loud. They were having their own insane party of coloring this river...
-EG ; early salvinorin-a report
I'm actually very sad to hear that salvia is becoming scheduled... It's one of those compounds that is "not for everybody", it's not necessarily pleasant, it's not a good recreational compound, but it does have value for a very specific set of people who can recognize and use this compound properly... Sad stuff...another beautiful but misunderstood plant and its compounds fall victim to drug-war over-kill... -eg Very nice experiance!  I asume this was salvia extract? If so.. what strength did you smoke.. [and how much]..for this well rememdered experiance? Was this salvia alone in the tunnel experiance/ Ive had many salvia 10x..20x 40x..experiances and they were awesome but memory was a little fuzzy on most but one i had i remember well.. After only a small pinch of 40x i felt that i was being transporeted from one dimention to the other many visual objects came spinning towards me in kind of a vortex.. I then observed green hill sides and a child like blue sky with white cotton clouds and loong ! line of ...ginger bread cookie people stretching far back into the green hilled countryside.. Then a clap of thunder sound.. and the first ginger bread person fell backwards onto the green grassed ground..then the next one behind him... then the third... and the forth...fifth and these gingerbread people.. with smiles.. fell backwards like a line of dominos one right after the other all of them had a beautyfull smile on their faces and each time one fell backwards to the ground a large flash star patern would flash from the ground.. Strangly enough.. seeing this was not a sad but a happy experiance because of their smiles they apeared to be playing a game in a world where death did not exist .. they represented life in all positive ways... This was one salvia experiance i could not forget.. In another shorter salvia experiance.. i remember a blue sky radiating only the wonder and happyness a child could feel. I observed a cloths line with many identicle white shirts hanging on it. and sun shining over head they were fluttering in the gentle breeze.. There was something about seeing these.. white shirts on the line fluttering.. that seemed so special to me! I think i was seeing this as a child again and thats what made it so special! Ive sawed in half my atoms scattered every where and also became a flat wet rug on another salvia experiance..
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My! How amusing! I wonder if they know Jimson Weed grows wild through much of the US.
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starway6 wrote:entheogenic-gnosis wrote:It's actually really sad to.see salvinorin-a and the other salvinorin compounds become scheduled... Salvinorin-a is a trans-neoclerodane Diterpenoid hydrocarbon, it's not an alkaloid or an amine, it contains no nitrogen, and Salvinorin A is the first naturally occurring non—nitrogenous, non-alkaloid, kappa opioid receptor agonist. (I've also heard that the salvia divinorum plant was a cultivar, which adds another element of novelty to the situation) So it really is a unique compound... (The only other psychoactive which comes to mind which is plant derived and is not an alkaloid or an amine is delta-9-tetrahydro-cannabinol, which is a diterpenoid hydrocarbon...) I actually love salvinorin-a. Quote:I had just obtained the salvinorin-a and went into a tunnel where I would often smoke marijuana, it's an isolated place, no worries about the public or police. I loaded a fairly large bowl of the salvinorin-a infused leaf into my marijuana pipe and cashed it in a single hit...
The bricks on the wall began to form a pyramid like structure in my visual field, a rush of cold pins and needles moved over my skin as I slowly lost contact with my body and the outside world, the pyramid structure became more defined, it was an Aztec pyramid, with vines and jungle surrounding it. I looked around I saw I was surrounded by small creatures, they were shaped like upside down horse-shoes or like a lower-case letter "n", they had feet at each point of the "n" shape of their body, large black eyes, and funny little arm like appendages that were warped around a stick which was resting across their "shoulders" with a bucket full of water on either end of the stick. All these little beings were carrying these pales of water up the pyramid steps. The communicated in this squeaky high-pitch ossiclation of frequencies which were packed with telepathic significance, I followed them to the top of the pyramid, where a river was running down the back, they were all dumping their buckets f water into this river, which I jumped into, I felt wet, and blind, and as if I were falling...then I came back to baseline reality.
Another time I smoked in my friends garage, after I exhaled I saw a multicolored river pouring over the white van that was parked next to me, this river type thing began at the top of the shelf and at its mouth sat several of these whacky, goofy, constantly moving and jumping and bouncing and making noise elf type creatures, all their bodies had odd shapes, one was shaped similar to a pipe wrench, the other was several odd angles all intersecting, it's hard to describe them, but I realized they were throwing this color changing rainbow like stuff into the "river" that was pouring down the shelf over the vans windshield and roof like wind, and out the garage door, these creatures were again squeaky and loud. They were having their own insane party of coloring this river...
-EG ; early salvinorin-a report
I'm actually very sad to hear that salvia is becoming scheduled... It's one of those compounds that is "not for everybody", it's not necessarily pleasant, it's not a good recreational compound, but it does have value for a very specific set of people who can recognize and use this compound properly... Sad stuff...another beautiful but misunderstood plant and its compounds fall victim to drug-war over-kill... -eg Very nice experiance! I asume this was salvia extract? If so.. what strength did you smoke.. [and how much]..for this well rememdered experiance? Was this salvia alone in the tunnel experiance/ Ive had many salvia 10x..20x 40x..experiances and they were awesome but memory was a little fuzzy on most but one i had i remember well.. After only a small pinch of 40x i felt that i was being transporeted from one dimention to the other many visual objects came spinning towards me in kind of a vortex.. I then observed green hill sides and a child like blue sky with white cotton clouds and loong ! line of ...ginger bread cookie people stretching far back into the green hilled countryside.. Then a clap of thunder sound.. and the first ginger bread person fell backwards onto the green grassed ground..then the next one behind him... then the third... and the forth...fifth and these gingerbread people.. with smiles.. fell backwards like a line of dominos one right after the other all of them had a beautyfull smile on their faces and each time one fell backwards to the ground a large flash star patern would flash from the ground.. Strangly enough.. seeing this was not a sad but a happy experiance because of their smiles they apeared to be playing a game in a world where death did not exist .. they represented life in all positive ways... This was one salvia experiance i could not forget.. In another shorter salvia experiance.. i remember a blue sky radiating only the wonder and happyness a child could feel. I observed a cloths line with many identicle white shirts hanging on it. and sun shining over head they were fluttering in the gentle breeze.. There was something about seeing these.. white shirts on the line fluttering.. that seemed so special to me! I think i was seeing this as a child again and thats what made it so special! Ive sawed in half my atoms scattered every where and also became a flat wet rug on another salvia experiance.. I had a similar salvinorin experience involving a sunny day, sitting in the grass, and intense recall of being a child...it was crazy, the way the world "looked" reminded me of how the world looked from my eyes as a small child, the sun shine and the grass were particularly important... I haven't thought about that trip for years...I should try to write out a detailed report of that experiance as well... Ok now for the questions: Quote:I asume this was salvia extract?
If so.. what strength did you smoke.. [and how much]..for this well rememdered experiance This was salvinorin-a which was extracted, dissolved in a solvent, which was then placed on salvia leaf, the solvent was then allowed to evaporate, leaving the leaf infused with salvinorin-a... This blend contained 152mg of pure salvinorin-A per gram of leaf...that's what? 50x? I'm not sure how much I actually smoked, 1/4 gram maybe? Maybe more...it's hard to say, how much is a "big pinch" of plant matter? I love salvinorin-a. Actually there are several of these salvia derived trans-neoclerodane diterpenoid compounds that fascinate me, 2-O-methoxymethylsalvinorin-B in particular. -eg
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entheogenic-gnosis wrote:
Actually there are several of these salvia derived trans-neoclerodane diterpenoid compounds that fascinate me, 2-O-methoxymethylsalvinorin-B in particular.
-eg
Fortunately all of the alkoxymethyl ethers of Salvinorin B are still unambiguously legal. Federal Analog Act can't touch them as Salvinorins are not scheduled.
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http://www.google.com/patents/WO2005089745A1?cl=enSalvinorin derivatives and uses thereof WO 2005089745 A1 ABSTRACT The invention features salvinorin compositions that are selective for kappa opioid receptors; methods of treating mania by using a selective kappa receptor agonist; and methods of treating mood disorders, such as depressive disorders and manic disorders, using salvinorin compositions. -eg
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My research on trans-Neoclerodane diterpenoid hydrocarbons has been rich indeed, below are some links and PDF files regarding salvinorin research.
Salvinorins D-F, New Neoclerodane Diterpenoids from Salvia http://www.google.com/ur...dUkDxBvCXPvIznFKkUuUGI3A
Salvinorin C, a New Neoclerodane Diterpene from a Bioactive Fraction of the Hallucinogenic Mexican Mint Salvia divinorum Leander J. Valdés III,* Hui-Ming Chang, Daniel C. Visger, and Masato Koreeda Salvinorin C (1), a minor component from a biologically active TLC fraction, was isolated from the leaves of the Mexican mint Salvia divinorum. Its structure was elucidated on the basis of extensive proton and C-13 NMR experiments, as well as by comparison of the NMR data with those of the mono- and diacetate derivatives 5-7 of the major NaBH4-reduction product of salvinorin A http://www.sagewisdom.org/salvinorinc.html
http://sagewisdom.org/kutrzebaetal3.pdfntramolecular Transacetylation in Salvinorins D and E
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19473009Salvinorins J from Salvia divinorum
Standard protecting groups create potent and selective kappa opioids: salvinorin B alkoxymethyl ethers. Munro TA1, Duncan KK, Xu W, Wang Y, Liu-Chen LY, Carlezon WA Jr, Cohen BM, Béguin C. Author information Abstract Protection of salvinorin B as standard alkoxyalkyl ethers yielded highly potent kappa opioid receptor agonists. Ethoxymethyl ether 6 is among the most potent and selective kappa agonists reported to date. Fluoroethoxymethyl ether 11 is the first potent, selective fluorinated kappa ligand, with potential use in MRI and PET studies. Further enlargement of the alkoxy group, alkylation of the acetal carbon, or heteroatom substitution all reduced activity. These protecting groups may prove useful in related work not only by enabling the use of harsher synthetic conditions, but potentially by optimizing the potency of the products. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17981041
Which brings me to my compound(s) of interest: 2-O-methoxymethylsalvinorin B and salvinorin B ethoxymethyl ether also known as "Symmetry" Quote:This plant's active compound, salvinorin A (Ortega et al. 1982), is the most potent naturally occurring psychedelic known, producing clear effects at doses of one milligram or less when vaporized (Siebert 1994). Salvinorin A acts at the kappa opioid receptor (Roth et al. 2002), and since most previously known potent opioids have been alkaloids, not diterpenoids, this discovery has excited scientists considerably. In recent years, over a hundred derivatives of salvinorin A have been synthesized in hopes of producing new medicines (Prisinzano & Rothman 2008 ). A few of these derivatives have had interesting properties, but most are simply disappointing, less-potent imitations of salvinorin A itself. Other salvinorins and related compounds have also been extracted from the plant (Shirota et al. 2006 ), but again, these compounds are less potent at opioid receptors than salvinorin A. Our attention was therefore caught by a report of a derivative that was actually more potent: salvinorin B methoxymethyl ether (Lee et al. 2005 ). This in vitro result was later confirmed in mice studies, which also showed that the drug appeared to last longer than salvinorin A (Wang et al. 2008 ). Then came another report that a slight modification to this compound made an even stronger drug, salvinorin B ethoxymethyl ether (Munro et al. 2008 ), which appeared to be about ten times as potent as salvinorin A in vitro (Figure 1). If this turned out to be true in humans as well, it would make salvinorin B ethoxymethyl ether (henceforth referred to as "Symmetry" ) one of the most potent known psychedelics, comparable to the legendary LSD. https://www.erowid.org/c...hyl_ether_article1.shtml So naturally 2-O-methoxymethylsalvinorin B and salvinorin B ethoxymethyl ether ("Symmetry" ) were of immediate interest to me....
The only other natural psychoactive which is not an alkaloid or an amine, which contains no nitrogen and which can not be converted into a salt by reaction of the freebase with an acid, that I know of, is the diterpenoid hydrocarbon compounds found in cannabis plants, particularly delta-9-tetrahydro-cannabinol... However it's the salvinorins that have always held my interest, the cannabinoids are amazing, and I do a fair amount of research in that area as well, but the salvinorins are surround by this field of "weirdness" that draws me to them...I also consider salvinorin-a to be experientially similar to DMT, but that's a personal comparison, and others may object.
As for scheduling, on the federal level, salvia divinorum and all of its host compounds are legal. Quote:
Salvinorin A is not scheduled at the federal level in the United States.[51] Its molecular structure is unlike any Schedule I or II drug, so possession or sales is unlikely to be prosecuted under the Federal Analogue Act. -Wikipedia
When it says "its molecular structure is unlike any Schedule I or II drug" it's referring to the fact that salvinorins are not alkaloids or amines, they contain no nitrogen, they can not be formed into a salt by reaction with an acid, and so on... ...Though that Wikipedia excerpt fails to mention that as far as chemical structure goes, the salvinorin compounds do resemble the schedule one compound THC, however pharmocologically the two compounds are worlds apart, one being a kappa opioid receptor agonist the other being a CB1/CB2 receptor agonist... -eg
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Rocket3476stz wrote:My! How amusing! I wonder if they know Jimson Weed grows wild through much of the US. Funny story regarding how the plant got the name "jimson weed" In 1676, in Jamestown, Virginia, British troops sent to halt Bacon's Rebellion thought that the plant was food, they mixed the datura into salads and fed them to the troops, needless to say a mass poisoning occurred, earning the plant the name "Jamestown weed" which over time was corrupted to "jimson weed" -eg
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This picture was supposed to be attached to my post regarding 2-O-methoxymethylsalvinorin B and salvinorin B ethoxymethyl ether ("Symmetry" )
-eg
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I'm not sure why it did not work in the last post, I apologize. -eg entheogenic-gnosis attached the following image(s):  salvinorin_b_ethoxymethyl_ether_article1_fig_1.jpg (48kb) downloaded 30 time(s).
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