That's a great link, thanks for sharing.

Great info. Would you care to explain more the nature of your LSA experiences?Were they drastically open eye visually active? Were they taken with any alcohol or aldehydes? What was your mixture to create the supposed 'LSH'?

Also, out of curiosity what was your general procedure you took to obtain the crystal forms?

I have felt a great difference in experience when I have taken plain LSA crystals compared to when taken with alcohol + peppermint. Plain LSA was not visually active and had a depressant feel opposed to when I have had alcohol and LSA was dissolved in 95% etoh + peppermint oil it seems very visual. Again, still am experimenting to get conclusive results..

Today there were two contributions made to the psychedelic community. One was the exploration of LSV, the vanillin adduct of LSA, and the other was an experimental technique which was developed and tested by my family member who lives with me, we'll refer to him as my cousin.

Most exciting is my cousin's technique. He had the idea that since the adducts create a substance without the side effects of woodrose, and the cwe seems not to be very efficient with woodrose, why not soak the seeds in cinnamon extract overnight and just drink down the whole thing? The result is that he tripped substantially stronger and a couple hours longer from the same amount of seeds from the same batch with the same cinnamon extract a week later using this method rather than cwe. And the thing that really proves this to me - he consumed 5 HBWR seeds, which had been soaked in water, cinnamon oil and alcohol, and experienced no physical side effects other than mild stomach discomfort which he compared to that of his frequent mushroom nausea, nothing that interrupted the flow of the experience. its more efficient than cwe, and totally effective at changing the water (i've been on a dune kick, and having a spice change the poisonous water extract into a favorable psychedelic does indeed remind me of the priestess changing the water of life into a catalyst that changes the rest of the poisonous water of life into the favorable spice which is described as smelling like cinnamon.)

LSV is disappointing. LSC was stronger at 5 woodroses, LSB was stronger at 7, than LSV is at 15. There are occasionally strong visual warping, and objects wiggling, and a rapid onset like LSC. Emotionally it is dull, almost inactive. Mentally, only a sedative like effect was noted. Physical sensations were similar to most serotonergics, but with somewhat sick of a feeling randomly throughout my body, like elbow nausea and spinal nausea, not very intense but it was my perception of my energy under the influence of a substance that allows me to perceive my energy but only while it bears the signature energy of the tool that lets me perceive it. Being able to tell what a new psychedelic is or isnt doing is tricky, but believe me, do not waste your time with vanilla extract. ethylvanillin might still be worthwhile but i wouldnt bet on it. LSV was only moderately visual overall and sedating but not unmotivating yet bearing a dark energy pattern. No bad effect at 15 seeds cwe, consumed 5 seeds worth at a time over 2 hours, that much woodrose and I'm very strongly affected and in quite some pain. LSV at least shows us that not all compounds in this family are magical, and that close attention should be paid to those which truly are.

Okay, i also need to illustrate my recent experiments. having recently acquired woodrose seeds, my cousin and i tried a cwe of 10 seeds split 2 ways (5 each) with cinnamomum aromaticum tincture...my cousin remarked, "I can't WAIT...to keep this on the downlow." I was happy to experience at last the effect of this compound which first floated thru my head during a morning glory/peppermint+spearmint trip in feb 2010 or so. it wasn't a strong amount, but the feeling was warm and mescaliney but the headspace was somewhere between phenethylamine and lysergamide, and visually unique. i was surprised that the body feelings were warm tingly through the legs and ribcage and i think the substance has great potential at higher doses and it does not seem threatening in any way so far. my experience was similar to reports I've received from friends and internet searches.

the next day, having some tolerance to serotonergix I made a cwe with a tiny pinch of citric of 7 seeds and combined with imitation almond extract (water, alcohol, benzaldehyde). the result was stronger than the previous day. visually it seemed to have more potential, and mentally it was more active. the body feelings were not as pleasant as LSC and nausea as well as heat perception issues (hot then fine then hot). I am a consumer of sushi, it was my birthday and my girlfriend treated me. It seemed like the bar was hot, but we live in a somewhat cold climate so restaurants catering to rich tourists who consider 50 degrees F "freezing cold", this might not have been an effect of the drug. but my inability to tolerate it might have been. Anyway, yes i managed to fully stomache delicious raw fish while experimenting with a novel psychedelic and experiencing nausea from it. Not necessarily recommended, but "LSB" and sushi do not cause a bad reaction in the stomach. given tolerance from LSC the previous day, the modest dose adjustment and tek adjustment, I would say LSB seems more potent than LSC, and is mentally and visually more comparable to mushrooms than anything else, but physically less desirable than LSC or mushrooms. and LSV is less physically taxing than LSA but is less potent than LSA and produces a rather lackluster experience.

the direction i want to go is finding out which chamomile has the alpha-hexyl-cinnamaldehyde and getting ahold of that, and finding a source of lilial, which is 4-isobutyl-alpha-methyl-cinnamaldehyde. Also interesting are anisaldehyde (4-methoxy-benzaldehyde) and cuminaldehyde (4-isopropyl-benzaldehyde). I think the 4-hydroxy of the vanillin is getting in the way being a useless functional group to have on an amine, maybe blocking the methoxy group from reaching into the receptor site. ethylvanillin might be better but i feel like unless cumin or anise prove to be any better than benzaldehyde i may have to stop being interested in the substituted benzaldehydes because i've tried two, both were physically not awesome and I've tried two of the cinnamaldehyde family, piperonylacrolein and coniferaldehyde from sassafras tincture and of course cinnamon tincture, and both are pleasant and easy on the body. Maybe we're looking at toxic metabolites from the benz family, like benzylamine, compared to the cinn family possibly metabolizing into phenylpropylamines. anyway, thats what i got. oh, and I am confident enough about my cousins tek that the next experiment is 10 seeds each powdered and soaked in cinnamon oil. this would definitely cause physical issues without the cinnamon. also, cousin was testing his cinnamon soak tek while my girlfriend and I were testing the lsv. energetic and effects comparisons were easy as we all dosed at the same time. she on 5 seeds had effects taper off at 4 hours. at 30 mins i went up to 10 and at 1:30 she offered me her other half so i took it up to 15. now its t+12h from initial ingestion, i am still noticeably affected but its not interesting. cousins in afterglow as well, his lsc tek lasted him about 11 hours. i just have residual effect so i estimate actual duration around 11 hours as well. but a definite time early in the middle where it dropped off and then persisted in mild visual shiftiness and color and contrast and general aesthetic enhancement, with somewhat of a shift toward blue.

Researching lysergic chemistry may be usefull, but probably difficult, costly and out of reach for amateur chemists.

I once believed this LSA conversion story because i had some good experiences with it, but then i also had some good experiences with pure seeds without any peppermint based admixtures and i started to seriously doubt these claims. It seems that both with and without peppermint oil, these seeds sometimes induce LSD-like experiences and sometimes fail to do so.

Cultivating potent seeds and finding ways of storing them properly is probably more usefull. Cultivating potent strains may take a few years, but anybody can do it and it WILL get us results eventually. Growing these plants is also easy and safe and some of them actually look great in your house or garden.

Unfortunately a year ago, some of my morning glory´s got a fungus infection of some sort. But i´m planning to grow some ololiuqiui indoors this year.

^my first experience with morning glories was for more visionary than LSD ever got for me. I dont believe this was due to me not having real acid etc..it is very very easy to get real LSD where I am on the west coast. When I took LSD the first time it was very potent psychologically and it was visual, but not visionary. Still my first time with morning glory seeds took me to a place that was psychologically beyond where LSD took me, with more euphoria and this amazing afterglow. I also felt drained the next day though..but these morning glory seeds brought on insane visionary experiences almost comparable to ayahuasca in some ways..I did smoke cannabis with them but I smoked cannabis with LSD as well.

The other times I took the seeds they were far less spectacular or did nothing at all..I think the first time I took them I had very fresh seeds. I think hoffman said that fresh seeds did contain LSH but it degrades quickly into LSA as the seeds are stored.

I never tried peppermint conversion.

I managed to get around to trying the benzaldehyde/woodrose mixture at a higher dosage, at 10 seeds. What is interesting is some of the insights I had, but mostly what the overall impression I got from this was of it imparting quite a sour mood, with feelings of toxicity including pressure around the eyes that grew noticeably sharp and somewhat painful and lasted throughout the day. An interesting physical effect was....I wish I had my notebook here, I would just transcribe it - yes, I will do that later. The physical effect was that I would feel the tendons get the signal, as with woodrose alone, to constrict, but unlike woodrose alone, the signal would not simply lock into the "on" firing position, but simply turn on, then tremor, then relax. And it felt great. With cinnamon/woodrose at 10 seeds I noticed some nice tingly sensations in the legs, but this was distinct from that. Also notable were the distinct mental effects - mentally I felt not very affected at all, with the exception of some noticeable visuals early on in the experience. After the peak, at around 3 hours post ingestion, effects were almost indistinguishable from not having taken anything at all, except that there were still the effects it had on balance and visual clarity (balance was noticeably altered, mentally I felt slightly more clear, I was enunciating my words a little extra clearly, etc.). This was not humorous, and did not generally feel healing, or positive really, except for an increased appreciation of art during the peak, as well as some visual patterning and a bit of losing track of where things are relative to one another in the paintings I looked at, and also nice were the bizzarre signals going through my legs. I am rather put off by this experience and I'm looking forward to the next experiment which will hopefully be employing german or roman chamomile oil, depending on which one comes my way first. Looking for that hexyl cinnamaldehyde. I have a much better feeling about the cinnamon and chemically related essential oils than about benzaldehyde and its chemically related oils and extracts. There will be another experiment conducted soon by a different person to try and challenge my conclusions, which is good, because I shouldn't be concluding stuff so fast. Basically, since the first benzaldehyde experiment I tried worked out nicely for me, though there was quite some temperature and subtly heavy nausea issues, and the second one was not very nice, my cousin volunteered to try repeating my experience with 10 seeds having no bias or expectation (he thinks...hehe). Yeah.

My dog had his first experience with the cinnemaldehyde adduct. The seeds were stored in dark dry space for a year (assuming all the LSH would degrade to the workable LSA).
His recollections of this B-Day he gave me to post; here:

"Poured boiling water over ground Kola nut, shook and put in fridge to cold-decant (garnished with lime juice, cinnamon and nutmeg).

Then adduct formation began:
Pulse grinding seeds, Mixing with filtered H2O in a tin-foil covered canning jar with fresh ground cinnamon, stevia and lemon juice. Shook. Placed in fridge.

Shook only the 400 HBMG CWE, ocassionally; for 6 hrs maybe 5 times, before the third shake; he added 6 drops of Cinnamon bark essential oil.

At Noon he chewed and held sublingual 3 Datura stramonium and 1 D.i. seed and swallowed them 15 minutes later; when the Kola liquid was removed and drank (leaving the muck on bottom) and the MGE was shaken strongly one final time.

12:15 Already slightly altered from the 4 seeds of Datura; the MG vessel moved from the fridge to a dark bathroom with a cracked door for light.

The filter busted (oh well) so the liquid was straight poured off into a tin foil covered glass; spilling some (maybe 25 seeds worth?)and leaving most of the seed matter behind. He didn't press it.

12:30 MG drink was finished. There was some muck which was sucked on and held sublingual. Swallowed...

12:45 Dreamy happy headspace and a good easy going body vibe. Wow this came on fast! It accelerates rapidly.

1:00 Peaking.

1:05 Some nausea. Thirst from the Datura.

1:10 Sitting to vaporize a snap with a magnifying glass.

1:30 Feeling like the breath cannot be caught. Does LSC constricts the airways? Start searching for information online; and the screen keeps rippling, making it difficult. Anxious; not enjoying the effect much. Then another psychedelic wave hits.

1:40 Focuse on breathwork and feel great. Slight nausea coming and going.

2:00 Experience visual alterations; a shimmering/waving in the rug patterning (definitely more than is usual). It seemed to be playful/intelligent and powerful also. See a glistening 3-d rippling circle burst outwards from the carpet, as if a rock was dropped in a pond; from corner of the eye.

2:15 Pushups.

2:30 Joy.

3:00-5:00 Gentle "comeback" with another snap.

The next day: Wake early feeling great. Next time perhaps 5 drops Lemon essential oil with olive oil in capsules 25 min before dosing; and 000 cayenne capsule taken 20 min after for adrenaline rush?

Is sinus clogging and shortness of breath unrelated to the Cinnemaldehyde adduct? A nasal decongestant pill worked quickly."

My dog seemed to be very happy about the experience.

I wonder what sort of effects these adducts might have with Mesc (a la Mystery Man Tea).

Blessings.

Fascinating topic.

Observant wrote:



Do let us know what the outcome of this experiment is.
My Cat would like to try this too. So how is the wine-
cinnamon oil solution made ph4? Lemon juice?

And I suppose instead of doing this with LSA-extract,
curing pulverised HBWR-seeds with this Wine-Cinnamon
solution would achieve the same conversion, right?

My cat will try this curing of pulverised HBWR-seeds
(he can't be bohered with LSA-extractions) and will
do experiments with them and report back if he notices
any difference in effects from his prior experiences
with chewing HBWR-seeds.

I just did some reading and found patents which claim formation of aldehyde-amine adducts by addition at an amine:aldehyde ratio of 0.45-0.8 in the presence of alcohol, leading to a product solution with a specific gravity of 3-7% less than the mixture of starting materials, and a research paper that does mass spectrometry finding adduct formation. This is good.

Two days ago I did CWE of 6 woodrose seeds, mixed ethanol and german chamomile oil. at 1.5 seeds worth, I had visual distortions, at 3.5 seeds worth, considerably stronger visuals with strong sedation. at 6 ! noticed no intensification of psychedelic effect, but a bit more sedating.

yesterday my family member consumed an 8 seed cwe with german chamomile oil and after getting visuals, he went to sleep at around 3-4 hour mark, until waking at about 9 hours, then was awake all night afterward in a psychedelic aftaglow state.

Its promising so far, but I think since I found a source of cheap pure and local hexylcinnamaldehyde, might try using that instead, in case the non-aldehydic compounds in the oil are responsible for the sedation (it is chamomile after all).

I here proclaim my joy and relief and curiosity!
Made a tincture of freshly ground cumin seeds. It smells delicious. Made a cold water extract of 7 seeds HBWR, with everything filtered, mixed togethr and observed a yellow opaque solution. for comparison I added some cumin tinc to a glass of water and it became a yellow translucent solution.

I consumed a small sip, being cautious, and after a little nausea I was surprised with some threshold effects.

I consumed at that point about half the total cumin-woodrose liquid. once again felt nausea for about half an hour. Distict color enhancement, tingly good feelings and talkativeness. somewhat chilled vibe.

The potency of the results here are opposite from vanilla. Where 15 seeds with vanilla adduct was clearly a strong (not intense) dose of a weak drug, 3-4 seeds with cumin adduct was clearly a moderate dose of a quite powerful drug. besides the distinct jiggling of the fabric of the world around me (aka visual distortion), the one word reappearing to describe the cumin adduct: powerful.
I also seemed to notice somewhat of a feeling like being on a dissociative. but I can't honestly put my finger down on dissociativeness. higher doses (such as 7 seeds being all the way consumed) are in order.

really, this is a huge relief! I thought benzaldehydes were done and over with. benzaldehyde and vanillin were both more or less worthless for enjoyability, all I gained was possibly finding out that a 4-hydroxy group is less useful than nothing at all. but I saw that 4-isopropyl group on cuminaldehyde and learned that cuminaldehyde is the main component of cumin seed oil...now that I've observed the drastic potency difference between vanillin and cuminaldehyde adducts I am quite convinced that the 4 position in the aryl aldehydes being added to lsa, is very important in determining the potency and activity. sounds familiar doesn't it?

you can't accurately deduce that any adduct complexes with parent compound actually form without spectral analysis.

please do hook it up. I am 100% interested in anyone's analysis results. I know there's an alteration in pharmic effect (including potency changes). I guess I'm the guy trying to find the right plants to mix together, and hypothesizing as to why it is so; someone else out there finding out why it works and telling me about it would be awesome. I have SUCH a hypothesis though. And the hypothesis has consistently lead to results which reinforce the hypothesis. I know this isn't a popular idea on this forum. I will go see whats up with the analysis thread.

it's not that it's not a popular idea, it's actually pretty cool. [safe] experimentation is always encouraged; a means of analysis provides a better picture that some sort of reaction is occuring. this can be done with something as simple as Whatman paper (chromatography), and a solution of ethyl acetate, methanol, and ammonia.
first, you'd use an extract with no oils added (this will be your control), then test the experimental groups.

just read about how easily chromatography can be done using blotter paper, a solvent, and a mason jar. will play around with dyes, get accustomed to it, and see what I come up with. Then I'll try with woodrose cwe, cinn oil, then "LSC" and see...maybe will be able to learn from that. thanks

you got a link to the source/method?
just recently discovered phalaris arund. grows wild EVERYWHERE around where i live, and that sounds like just the thing a chemically-illiterate fellow like me needs.

It's the exact same principle as how TLC works, except you use paper instead of the TLC plates. Check my signature for how it works.

You'll need to spray some reagent like ehrlich or xanthydrol or whatever to visualize the spots after you chromatograph your samples.

oh, he made it sound much less complicated
at least i don't have to invest in buying a bunch tlc plates now, though.

technically, you can view them without the treatments, under 365 nm UV light. they just appear more in visible light after treatments with those reagents. under UV (without reagent treatment), lysergic acid appears light blue, lsa appears light teal, and variations would likely appear various shades of teal to green. migration of multiple spots in a lane (compared against an extraction control) would indicate that a reaction occurred

Reviving an old thread here, but I was going to be attempting some experiments that go along with this thread.

I just did my first extraction on morning glories, and have never taken LSA. I have had LSD before a few times, but never LSA. What I wanted to do was take each dose of extract, at about 100 seeds per dose, and mix them with different oils such as cinnamon oil, peppermint oil, vanilla extract for the vanillin, and whatever other oils I am currently forgetting that contain different aldehydes.

The idea behind it is to have someone else mix the dose with one of the aldehyde containing oils, and not tell me which one it was mixed with. I will then take this dose, and make notes on the experience. After trying a few of these lysergic compounds out, I will share the results and compare the different compounds. And of course, I will take the normal LSA on its own as a reference, but I will not know which dose will be the normal LSA.

It may take a few weeks or more to get all the info together, for I can only experiment on weekends, and even then not every weekend presents a proper time to experiment.