Interesting. Those seem like some pretty advanced techniques, I take it this isn't your first extraction?

This will be my first extraction. If you would like we can move this part of our discussion to my thread.
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...&m=512355#post512355

I have two questions regarding comparison between the Noman's tek and the Marsofold's tek

The first one is I been told in this thread to add the bark to the lye and not the other way around; However, in the Marsofold's tek it states to add the lye solution to the jug containing the polar Mimosa extraction:

"Premix in advance a solution of: 4 Tablespoons (50grams) of Sodium Hydroxide ("Red Devil" lye) with 1-Pint of Water. Stir well. Slowly add this solution to the wine jug, then cap the jug. Gently tilt the wine jug back and forth for 1 full minute to mix the contents."

How does one go about doing it the other way around?

Also in the Marsofold's tek 50g of lye is added to one pint of water for extracting 1lb of bark, and in the Noman's tek there's 15ml water per gram bark and 1g of lye per gram bark. Seeing as I am planning to extract 250g, this would be 250g of lye added to 3,750ml of water with the Noman's tek; However, with the Marsofold's tek I would be adding 28g of lye to 264ml. The way I see it, this is a big difference.

I would rather do the Noman's extraction to avoid having to do a polar extraction - it seems more simple, but is this tek much more dangerous because more lye/water is handled?

Thanks again,
Lyghtsout

With Noman's tek, it doesn't matter if you add the bark or lye first. I have done both in the past and it has not caused any problems. It is perfectly fine to add the NaOH solution to the acidic tea, and there really isn't an alternative.

Noman's tek requires more lye because the bark must be left in the solution rather than being filtered out like in Marsofold's tek. With a STB tek like Noman's, more lye is called for because the bark needs to be broken down as thoroughly as possible in order to release all of the alkaloids and to eliminate the risk of emulsion. With an A/B tek like Marsofold's, the bark is broken down during the acid boils, and emulsions are less likely because the bark is removed before basing.

Neither tek will be more dangerous than the other, as they both require the use of lye. For all intents and purposes, more or less lye does not make much of a difference when it comes to the causticity of the solution. Noman's tek is much simpler, but it also may produce a smaller yield. But don't get me wrong, a 1% yield is still common with STB methods, so it's not like your yield is doomed to be miniscule.

I would recommend that you start with Noman's tek (as it is simple and less time consuming), using maybe 50g of bark. The only thing I would add to his tek is to leave the 4th pull in the jar for a day or two, then freeze-precipitate it separately as he recommends. If the 4th pull yields crystals, keep doing more small pulls until you are no longer yielding anything. Combine the yield of all your pulls, weigh it, and record it. IIRC, Noman suggests only doing 4 pulls, which may leave some DMT in the solution.

Then I would recommend you try Marsofold's tek using maybe 50 or 100g of bark, also continuing to do small pulls until you are no longer yielding anything at all. Then combine the yield of all your pulls, weigh it, and record it. This way, you can see for yourself whether or not Marsofold's tek produces a higher yield than Noman's, and decide whether or not the difference is substantial enough to justify doing the extra steps required for Marsofold's tek.

Also, share your results with The Nexus to give beginners some solid evidence of whether or not A/B will produce a higher yield than STB.

Noman's was the first extraction tek I used (and I used it regularly for about a year and a half), and Marsofold's was the first A/B tek I used, so I can speak from experience on comparing the two. But I have only done Noman's tek with MHRB and I have only done Marsofold's tek with ACRB, so the one thing I can't say from experience is whether or not Marsofold's tek will produce a higher yield. Based on my understanding of the chemistry of extraction, I would bet that it does. But I haven't done the two teks side by side with the same batch of the same plant material, so I can only speculate. The one thing that is more convenient about Marsofold's tek is that one can reduce their solution to a more manageable amount. With Noman's tek, 200g of bark requires ~3L of caustic lye/bark/water soup. One mason jar is large enough to extract 50g bark. With Marsofold's tek, one can combine and reduce their acidic solution on medium-low heat. This would allow someone to do a >200g extraction in only one or two mason jars. When I was first learning how to do STB extractions and taking large-dose journeys several times a week, I ended up with about 35 mason jars of basified soup in my kitchen cabinet by the time I moved out of that house. I kept them around because of that Erowid article about recovering more spice by doing pulls on 6-12 month-old basified solution... But I never ended up doing pulls on any of it. What a waste of cabinet space!

Sorry about the long-winded response... Let me know if you have any more questions at all. I'm glad you are really doing your research before just jumping head-first into something you don't understand very well. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for many new members who join this forum.

Thanks for all the great info! :-) Out of curiosity do you have any experience with the Q21Q21's tek?

I think trying the Marsofold and Noman's tek with 100g sounds like a better plan then to jump in with 250g the first time on one tek. Get a feel for it and compare them for future extractions. I may experiment with the Q21Q21 tek as well an compare yields and the technique to see which suits best.

I've done and will do a lot of research, I have been using/sharing street DMT for quite some time and have seen what the molecule has to offer. It has indirectly saved my life by aiding in my recovery from drug and alcohol dependency. I decided time to get a life time supply and get the joy of extraction, and anything I do I strive to do right. I am very grateful for this site and have learned a lot from it.

I haven't used Q21Q21's tek myself, but I do have a pretty good understanding of how it works. It does require a few more steps than Marsofold's tek (salting, freebase conversion, etc.), but nothing all that complicated or difficult. Like I said previously, it can definitely be used to produce reasonably pure DMT comparable to that of any A/B or STB tek, albeit requiring a little more effort invested in it. Add a standard recrystallization procedure to Q21Q21's tek and you've likely got yourself ≥98% pure DMT.

I think you're on the right track with wanting to try each tek with small amounts and figure out which one will be the best fit for you in the future.

Thanks for all the great info!

Another question I had I couldn't find the answer to searching, is when evaporating naptha how profuse is the smell and is it dangerous to be in the room where it's evaporating much of the time? Is the smell gonna likely travel out the room and through the vents to the rest of the house? Considering I'm evaporating 100 grams Noman's tek/Marsofold's tek in an average size bedroom.

Worse case scenario, the lye is added too fast (not poured in all at once tho), from what I read there'd be a flash boil that would splash out the bottle and the glass can crack. I'm assuming that if you're aware you should be adding it slowly, it's highly unlikely to accidentally add the lye so fast the container would shatter or melt causing the solution to spill everywhere? This is my main concern, that sounds like a literal nightmare I wouldn't know what to do except call emergency after drowning the spill and myself in vinegar.

Thanks again :-)

The smell of naphtha is quite powerful and the fumes are hazardous. I definitely do not recommend even working with naphtha without adequate ventilation, especially evaporating it. As far as the short time periods that you will have the jar open and the naphtha exposed to open air (like when you are separating the layers), a good fan and an open window or two is probably adequate. But evaporation is really best done outside in the summer or in a garage or something similar where it will be warm and have good airflow. But why evaporate? Freeze-precipitation is much easier, faster and you can reuse the naphtha.

Yes, as long as you are being cautious and adding the lye little by little, it will be fine. Unless you were to weigh out the 100g in a dish and hold it directly over the extraction vessel while adding it, I don't see how you could accidentally add too much at once. With the degree of concern you have, I would be surprised if you were to add it too quickly. I use a teaspoon-size scoop. Add one scoop, stir for a minute or two until dissolved, repeat. Adding 100g to 750mL water at this rate will not cause it to get very hot at all.

Just hold the jar with one hand while you stir with the other. You will feel it get warm, but it shouldn't get to the point that it is getting too hot to touch. You can place the whole jar in the kitchen sink for this step if it will ease your mind. Then even if the glass were to crack, it would all just drain down the sink.

IF you were to get a small amount of lye on you (which is unlikely, but a possibility nonetheless), pour some vinegar on the area that the lye contacted, and run cold water over the area for several minutes.

Just a clarification, you said adding 100g of lye to 750ml of water but the tek says to add 1g to 15ml of water per gram of bark. So wouldn't 100g of lye be added to 1,500ml of water for a 100g bark extraction?

Also, I have read to use 1.5x the amount of water if your bark is pre-powdered. Would you raise the amount of lye as well to keep equal concentration? If so, would it be 1.5g lye 22.5ml water per gram of bark? And will it be necessary to use more naptha for the pulls as there would be a greater volume of the solution?

Try using q21q21s second tek . You just acidify your bark (vinegar, water, bark, simmer, time) and then add calcium hydroxide (pickling lime). Mix in enough lime so its nice and pasty and wont move all that easily. Let it sit for 12 hours or so. Put your jar in a warm water bath and do quick heated naptha pulls, 15 minutes and 50ml per 100g bark should be good. Do atleast 6 pulls.

If your worried about lye try this first. Its really pretty simple .

Yea, sorry. I'm not sure what I was thinking there. To follow the tek exactly would be 100g bark, 100g lye, and 1500mL water.

1.5x water is definitely a good idea a for pre-powdered bark. The volume of water is the only thing you would change. Just follow the tek exactly as is otherwise. Lye and naphtha are proportionate to the amount of bark, not the volume of water.

spractral, it is true that using Q21Q21's tek with naphtha pulls would be both safe and simple. If you decide to do this, Lyghtsout, you would want to follow Q21Q21's tek to the letter up until the point that it says to add limonene. Then instead of adding limonene, you would probably want to follow Noman's suggestions as far as how much naphtha to use, how to freeze-precipitate, and how to recover your crystals.

That being said, for a first-time extractor I think it is really a safer bet to follow a tek exactly as written and even still do enough research to have a basic understanding of the concepts, rather than just following the tek like a recipe. Once a beginner starts trying to make changes to the tek, even seemingly minor ones, things often start to go wrong. There are hundreds of threads on this forum that evidence this.