Just a few moments ago I was wondering how colourblind people will see their visions. Normally a defunction of the eye is responsible for someone being colourblind but I can remember that with my last aya trip I did see the same thing wth my eyes open as with my eyes closed. This seems to imply the eye as in the flesh is not responsible for the visions but the brain or something else is. So here is this basic question: Can colourblind people trip in colour? Has someone experienced this?

And what about totally blind people? What would they see?

Only one way to find out...

it's simple for me. To think that we ''see'' the ''visions'' with our eyes is a mistake, plain and simple. It really is with our mind. I am pretty sure that if my eyeballs were smashed in an accident, i would still , err, ''see'' all the , eerrr , ''visuals''. Hell, take high enough of a dose in slient darkness of a tryptamine compund and you'll even lose yuor body awareness. that is why i want total sensory deprivation while tripping. No music, no party around me. No nothing. If i had the money, i would buy a sensory deprivation water tank. ohhhh yeahhh I have the feeling that maybe, the activation in the visual cortex that is happening in our brains while on psychedelic is a erroneous response by our brains that is attemping to understand the whoke thing. Ha well, i'm playing ''what if '' alot here

Have you ever seen the movie "altered states". Its about a guy who takes mushies in a sensory dep tank and over several sessions regresses back on the evolutionary ladder. It is supposed to be a true story although the movie shows it actually happening to the guy and not just his mental/spiritual journey.

I agree with Fredy that it is actually the mind perceiving these images and places or what the mystics call the third eye http://www.dmt-nexus.me/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=47 I think a blind person would have a totally visionary experience although I guess it would be very overwhelming having never had a sense of sight before.

[quote:c353b8255d="blackclo"]I agree with Fredy that it is actually the mind perceiving these images and places or what the mystics call the third eye http://www.dmt-nexus.me/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=47 I think a blind person would have a totally visionary experience although I guess it would be very overwhelming having never had a sense of sight before.[/quote:c353b8255d] Overwhelming? Why ? Blind people have thoughts and ideas just like you and me They have imagination When they hear someone telling them a story, when they daydream, when they have sex fantasy, they, err, for lack of a better term/word ''see''.

Trivia-tidbit: the film [i:766df6ecca]Altered States[/i:766df6ecca] is loosely based on the life and experiences of John Lilly, the same guy who did the interspecies communication-lock research with dolphins and author of amongst many other works "Programming & Meta-Programming in the Human Bio-Computer", which describes (loosely encoded in scientific garb) how he re-programmed different reality states using the isolation tank in combination with LSD. This theory is a definite "must" for any serious explorer of the human consciousness. John Lilly also had numerous bouts of serious ketamine addiction (I'm talking dosing like every hour, 24h/day 7days/week for several weeks at a time...) which transported him into a reality tunnel which most people would call paranoid-delusional. He became convinced that a structure call the ECCO (Earth-Coincidence-Control-Office) was in charge of arranging fortuitous "coincidences" on the Earth but were at odds with a malevolent Entity called the SSI (Solid-State-Intelligenge) which was trying to conquer and dominate all biological life. Lilly was so concerned about this, that he called the President of the United States (I think it was Nixon...) Lilly was a noted scientist, so when he called, the White House listened (at first...). You can read a very entertaining summary of LIlly's experience with the ECCO in an article entitled "John Lilly, Ketamine and The Entities From ECCO", here: http://www.conspiracyarc...e.com/UFOs/Gorightly.htm Here's an excerpt: "But ECCO was not there only to guide Lilly unfettered through his mind-bending research; these extraterrestrial benefactors were also there to test Lilly, to help him overcome his deepest darkest fears with psychic-shock therapy. One evening after a kick-ass shot of K, Lilly sat watching TV when an alien representative of ECCO appeared and — with some advanced form of psychic surgery — bloodlessly removed John's penis, nonchalantly handing it over to him. "They've cut off my penis," Dr. Lilly exclaimed. His wife Toni came to the rescue and pointed out to John that his penis was still intact. Upon closer examination of his male member, Lilly saw that the ET's had replaced his normal human penis with a mechanical version that could become voluntary erect when he wanted it to. An hour later, after the effects of the K wore off, John Lilly found his normal human penis in place of the mechanical one, exactly where it had always been." Good place for further info on Lilly (bibliography, etc) here: http://deoxy.org/lilly.htm and http://www.erowid.org/cu...ly_john/lilly_john.shtml -z

fredyjenkins wrote: [quote:70b108ba70]Overwhelming? Why ? Blind people have thoughts and ideas just like you and me Wink They have imagination Wink When they hear someone telling them a story, when they daydream, when they have sex fantasy, they, err, for lack of a better term/word ''see''.[/quote:70b108ba70] Good point Fredy. Actually now that I think about it I wonder how a blind person from birth builds up their mental imagery of the world around them? I wonder how much different their inner imagination about the world is from a person that can see? Oh yeah and Zhah I've heard of Lilly and his experiments, pretty interesting stuff although Ketamine seems to have a dangerous side if overused. Lilly almost died from it and both DM Turner and Marcia Moore did eventually die from it's overuse. Speaking of Marcia Moore, if anyone is interested there's a cool book about Ketamine in the files section called "Journeys into the BrightWorld". It's about her experiances with this chemical and it does have some pretty amazing accounts of her journeys.

[quote:ae22e0e59b]I wonder how much different their inner imagination about the world is from a person that can see? [/quote:ae22e0e59b] I had read in a scientific review that people who were born blind do indeed dream but they dream about sounds, sensations, odors... obviously about what their brain 'learned'. I bet this would be the same while tripping. No visuals (that would mean nothing) but instead many more fake sounds, odors, sensations... But as long as someone's brain 'built' some visual network during his first three years of life, he would undoubtly 'see' things.

Well, regarding the original question of whether colorblind people trip in color... I'm very surprised that nobody has mentioned the fact that people affected by this disorder do not just see balck and white. They see color and they see the full range of colours, its just that when it comes to certain colors, namely greens and reds and some oranges, that they have trouble differentiating between them. If you ever had a test for colorblindedness you'll seee its made up of red and green circles.

For anybody who is wondering do totally blind people see DMT visions? The answer is a resounding big thumbs up yes. I have a blind friend who is a massive fan of DMT. He gets exactly the same effects you would expect. He was blind from birth. He also manages to describe what he sees better than most sighted people.

[quote:aabb39482d="magic clown"]For anybody who is wondering do totally blind people see DMT visions? The answer is a resounding big thumbs up yes. I have a blind friend who is a massive fan of DMT. He gets exactly the same effects you would expect. He was blind from birth. He also manages to describe what he sees better than most sighted people.[/quote:aabb39482d] That is really amazing!!! If he can manage to describe things blind people normally can't describe then to me it seems it's another clue that DMT really brings you into another 'dimension' and not just an hallucinational/dream world. Stuff to think about...

[quote:5f931f4ee6]He gets exactly the same effects you would expect.[/quote:5f931f4ee6] Unbelievable !! This really is amazing !! Could you post some trip report ? But I guess he can't 'see' real objects but only fractals and geometric patterns ? I'm realy curious to know how he describes those things.

The person I am refering to lives in a different part of the country from me. I dont have a number for him. I see him two or three times a year at particular festivals and specific events. You can be sure the next time I see him, I shall ask him if he would care to share his experiences with us. It never crossed my mind that it might be strange for blind people to share the DMT experience, after all they still dream.

[quote:48c406de34]after all they still dream.[/quote:48c406de34] Yes, but I always heard that they dream about sounds, touch, smells... Except if they have had vision during their first 3 years of life. In that case the vision network is built in the brain. Otherwise, born blind people can not 'know' what seeing is.

i have a friend who swears that he turned this guy onto some spice who was colorblind. had been for life. anyways.. after buddy comes down he starts crying about being able to see all these colors for the first time. he saw all the colors a normally visioned person would see! thats not even the cool thing. my buddy SWEARS that this has been a permanent affect for that guy. that he still completely sober days weeks months from doing dmt, that he still sees all colors.

That is amazing! It must have reset or activated some kind of dormant circuits of his brain, the implications are pretty wild.

i dont know how i missed this thread, but its the most interesting - thought provoking one on just about any site. i never thought about a blind person smoking dmt or taking any hallucinogens. it makes me angry that the research on these substances is illegal, that would be crazy if DMT was an actual cure for color blindness. i really really want to know what a person who had been blind their entire life would "see." i also want to know if a blind person in an ayuascha or mushroom trip setting could be "shown" things telapathically by other people, not just visions but also picutures of themselves or even showing the blind person a mental picture of himself. damn.. more research really needs to be done. a little digression. i had a friend that went to rochester instutute of technology. the school has a lot of deaf people, and he said when they would be at parties doing ecstasy they would all be signing crazily at the same time and it just looked this crazy mess, but you could tell they were all really getting it and completely focused/involved. im not making fun of anyone, its just a funny thought imho.