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Sodium (Bi)carbonate instead of NaOH in basifying DMT for an A/B (ALSO ACETONE EXTRACTION NO LYE NO Options
 
amor_fati
Chemical expertSenior Member
#61 Posted : 11/24/2008 5:51:14 AM
Sorry, SWIM finally read this thread, and these didn't seem to have been addressed.

crakkbakk wrote:

Infundibulum wrote:
crakkbakk wrote:
So:

Wash mimosa with acetone. Discard acetone.
Raise pH with sodium carbonate ph 11.
Dump excess amount of heated mag sulf.
Extract DMT-freebase with acetone
Evaporate acetone

This is good right?

no.

Quote:
Wash mimosa with acetone. Discard acetone.

Make a 1:1 mix with mimosa:sodium carbonate (even 5 parts mimosa to 1 part sodim carbonate should be fine)

Make it wet to a thin paste-like consistency.

Let it dry completely OR mix with anhydrous magnesium sulfate (= drying agent)

Extract DMT-freebase with acetone

Evaporate acetone


? that is what I wrote almost word for word?


The difference in crakkbakk's and Infundibulum's wording of the method is firstly that the ph wouldn't be measured, because a paste is being made, not a solution. Secondly, that the magnesium sulfate should not be hot when it is dumped in; rather, it should be made anhydrous by evaporating the water contained in epsom salt via heat. Perhaps crakkbakk understood this but did not express it in such a way.

Cheeto wrote:

geeg30 wrote:

The acetone for the carbonate extraction - does it have to be anhydrous or is that just for FASA type extractions?

I'm not completely sure of this method, but this is what i see.
[...]
2) Dry completly?, thats one thing i don't understand, if your going to use acetone to extract the dmt why do you have to make sure its all evaped before continueing?? If you evape the acetone left in the mix after washing(AFTER washing and discarding until oils are gone) anything left in the acetone will be left behind in the powder being that oils dont evaporate. so why make sure its dry, why not just press on and add some water and sodium carbonate?
[...]


The drying is not important after defatting, but by using anhydrous magnesium sulfate as a drying agent in the basified paste, the acetone you use to extract should turn out quite incredibly anhydrous by the time it's decanted.

The problem with not drying thoroughly is that there will likely be a good amount of water contamination, which isn't likely to hurt the process that much, unless you're using FASA methods. However, even if you're not, it takes much longer to evap for freebase retrieval if there is water contamination. There will almost always be some water in your acetone during any phase of this, so if you do your best to reduce it by drying between steps, the contamination should be minor and negligible.

crakkbakk wrote:

The thread originally asked if sodium carbonate would work. This question was answered by saying no not in naphtha but in DCM/chloroform or acetone. The acetone sparked interest and the thread shifted to acetone related questions where questions where answered in that you need to acetone wash, base with sodium carbonate, dry, extract with acetone, evaporate. Now the thread is just on logistics.


Yes, so there's no need for everyone to be arguing about which teks are easier/superior/more efficient. Each tek will live or die by its own merits. Sodium bicarbonate does not work very well but can be made into sodium carbonate which works very well in the newer acetone teks, but not so well in standard STB or A/B.


This is why SWIM prefers to simply link back to previous threads regarding this, but it can be difficult for SWIY's to have to review an entire thread. The ultimate solution is to develop a tek or perhaps a handbook that discusses all the teks and the options involved with each tek.
 
Jorkest
Moderator | Skills: Extraction Troubleshooting, (S)elf ProgrammingChemical expert | Skills: Extraction Troubleshooting, (S)elf Programming
#62 Posted : 11/24/2008 7:22:48 AM
a handbook?! what a lovely idea!!
it's a sound
 
Jorkest
Moderator | Skills: Extraction Troubleshooting, (S)elf ProgrammingChemical expert | Skills: Extraction Troubleshooting, (S)elf Programming
#63 Posted : 11/24/2008 7:23:11 AM
haha

DMT For DummiesPleased


**i mean no offense to anybody still figuring this stuff out...

i have a feeling most of us are still figuring this stuff all out...and will continue to until we die!
it's a sound
 
Entropymancer
Salvia divinorum expert | Skills: Information Location, Salvia divinorumExtraordinary knowledge | Skills: Information Location, Salvia divinorumModerator | Skills: Information Location, Salvia divinorumChemical expert | Skills: Information Location, Salvia divinorumSenior Member | Skills: Information Location, Salvia divinorum
#64 Posted : 11/24/2008 7:51:21 AM
Jorkest wrote:
haha

DMT For DummiesPleased


**i mean no offense to anybody still figuring this stuff out...

i have a feeling most of us are still figuring this stuff all out...and will continue to until we die!


Yeah, when the Nexus was first created, the only teks that existed were A/B and STB. Now there's at least a couple of new options (the carbonate/acetone method, and a couple of fumarate-based methods).

I wouldn't be surprised if some of these newer methods become popular in the coming months and years.



Also, it turns out that magnesium sulfate is not the preferred method for drying acetone. The informative folks at the Nook had this to say about it:


mycofile wrote:

Quote:
Most people trying these methods will be buying acetone from a hardware store. Hardware store acetone is generally not anhydrous, it contains some amount of water and/or alcohols. The best way to dry it is with anhydrous magnesium sulfate.

Not true. The proper way to dry acetone is with Drieright, aka calcium sulfate. See Vogel for reasons given against other drying agents.


poopstation wrote:

i had no idea about the magnesium sulfate not being effective, every tek i've ever seen on mesc extract recommends magnesium sulfate. i went out and looked up info on it, however i'm lacking specific details such as ratio of CaSO4 : Acetone and other helpful hints. Is it necessary to heat it prior to remove any moisture as recommended with the magnesium sulfate, any extra tips?


"From 'Purification of Laboratory Chemicals':

It can be dried with anhydrous CaSO4, K2CO3 or type 4A Linde molecular sieves, and then distd. Silica gel and alumina, or mildly acidic or basic dessicants cause acetone to undergo the aldol condensation, so that its water content is increased by passage through these reagents. This also occurs to some extent when P2O5 or sodium Amalgam is used. Anhydrous MgSO4 is an inefficient drying agent, and CaCl2 forms an addition compound. Drierite (anhydrous CaSO4) offers he minimum acid and base catalysis of aldol formation and is the recommended drying agent for this solvent."

^ i later read some precautions regarding using sieves

 
amor_fati
Chemical expertSenior Member
#65 Posted : 11/24/2008 8:01:08 AM
Good info. SWIM assumes that pumping the acetone through a column full of calcium sulfate would be the quickest way to accomplish this? Though for drying the the paste, magnesium sulfate would still probably be adequate and much cheaper.
 
69ron
#66 Posted : 11/24/2008 8:32:52 AM
Entropymancer, are you sure that information is accurate? I've always read in chemistry books that the recommended way to dry acetone is to use anhydrous magnesium sulfate because it’s cheaper. SWIM has been using it all the time for years and hasn’t had problems using it.
You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.

If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
 
Entropymancer
Salvia divinorum expert | Skills: Information Location, Salvia divinorumExtraordinary knowledge | Skills: Information Location, Salvia divinorumModerator | Skills: Information Location, Salvia divinorumChemical expert | Skills: Information Location, Salvia divinorumSenior Member | Skills: Information Location, Salvia divinorum
#67 Posted : 11/24/2008 3:22:11 PM
Well, I suppose the info might not be accurate, but it's what it says in Vogels. I suppose the info from Vogels could be outdated.

I think that magnesium sulfate works, it's just less efficient and leaves a small amount of water in the acetone. I imagine for the purposes of your carbonate/acetone tek, and FASA precipitation, it's good enough.
 
Otiliya
#68 Posted : 2/11/2009 12:50:38 AM
69ron wrote:
For an STB tech you need a very strong base. You need sodium hydroxide for the best results. Calcium hydroxide will also work, but the STB tech needs to be made specifically for it, or it won't work.
Will sodium carbonate work instead of lye in STB?
 
GirlsHateMe
#69 Posted : 2/15/2009 6:10:31 AM
Quote:
1. wash mimosa with acetone to defat
2. mix mimosa 1:1 with sodium carbonate and then add just enough water to make a paste(freebasing spice)
3. DRY mimosa(acetone and water do not mix) make sure its completely dry
4. once dry mix acetone with the resulting powder(mimosa and sodium carbonate) this pulls the freebase spice
5. do the acetone freebase extraction 3 times..save all of this acetone
6. evap acetone down to smaller amount

7. mix 309mg of fumaric acid in 100ml of NEW acetone(this will be enough fumaric acid to salt 1000mg of spice)
8. mix fumaric acid saturated acetone(FASA) with the dmt containing acetone
9. watch dmt fumarate fall out of the solution
10. pour of acetone leaving behind dmt fumarate crytals
11. dry crystals out on a flat surface



am I to understand that after step 6, if you evap it all the way down that you have freebase dmt ready to be used?

and 7-11 is just to make dmt fumarate?

any advantages to doing these extra steps besides oral ingestion and longer shelf life?
(edit, ron already explained this elsewhere, i supposed it is necessary for how much swim is doing)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole Armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. - Ephesians 6:12-13

GHM is an internet handle, a fictional one at that, the person I portray in no way depicts real life actions and or opinions. After all, whats the internet for besides pretending to be someone you arent! Also, no girls do not really hate me.
 
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