he sounds no differen't from a christian saying their god is the only god (not just christians i know)

his basic principles are kinda what most dmt users acknowledge anyway.... that god is everything. the universe is god experiencing itself in infinite ways.. including form. yadayadaya heard it many times martin your not telling us anything new. this is a conclusion that a lot of spiritual pioneers come to.. but what he isnt acknowledging is that perhaps god also wants to learn by experiencing, and that god is learning about his/her own nature through that freewill that he imbues in all consiousness. and in that sense god is learning from our experience too.

i think martin comes to these more vague conclusions partially because they are convenient. perhaps they make him feel better about his darker qualities, because they are all just another expression of the one consiousness (which is bloody lazy for a so called enlightened human being. he still reacts to the objects and people around him in the physical dimensions... the laws of the physical realm require him to, if he wants to stay alive. but when he comes to spiritual dimensions its as if he is not willing to accept that there are things he can react to in those realms too. remember martin. as above so below. and in terms of spirit.. perhaps as outside, so within.

Martin Ball's reputation is not without controversy, read this long thread about him to know more about it: Dr. Martin Ball - Entheogenicist


Kind regards,

The Traveler

its interesting how he says "I never met Terence. I have no idea what his level of personal use was of DMT. Nor do I know what his level of personal use of 5-MeO-DMT was, though one gets the impression that it was significantly less than of DMT. Given my own personal experience, I seriously doubt that there are many people on this planet who come anywhere near my experience level with 5-MeO-DMT, and I probably have more experience with the far weaker DMT than most as well"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpmFtG4W3CY and then says on this podcast that he has only done dmt once.

Though one is from 2008 and the other from 2012, right?

(Not that I think Martin Ball is right in any way.... )

I thought psychedelics were supposed to soften the ego...

Anyways this guy is so obnoxious right now, I hope he finds his way.

Considering he found the time to reply via Cloud to the thread linked earlier I imagine he keeps tabs on this site. It would be interesting to get him on the conversation (I hope we wouldn’t get eaten alive, straight away at least) without a member copy/pasting replies for him. It would like to hear in more depth and with more interactivity where exactly the understanding that non-dual experience is some kind of truth, and how this is any more important than the myriad of other experiences and interpretations that can be found working with this very complex tool.

Ah yes, Mr. Ball and his fixation with the "non-dual" experience. The end all, be all. The ultimate height of enlightenment or so he says.

I my self have had the non-dual experience more than a few times on different substances and mixtures thereof. The first time I smoked salvia I had this experience. It sent me on a spiritual path through Theoretical physics, Neurology, Buddhism and along the way I found DMT and the Nexus.

Yes this experience is a spiritual awakening, a realization of the ultimate center of being but it is just the beginning! The spiritual path starts here and expands out through the seemingly infinite experiences that are only possible in a dualistic universe. For it is only through encounters with the "other" that we are able to see our selves.

Martin Ball has reached the foot hills of enlightenment and gazing up at those great peaks in awe has proclaimed to the world that he has reached Enlightenment.

This man greatly upsets me, if he CHARGES people for money in order to explore their spirituality through the use of substances, he is a charlatan.

Spirituality is without materialism, it's priceless and should therefore be given as a gift, a sacred priviliege to the kind, fellow human being humbly asking for your guidance.

As a self employed person who sells my skills doing things others can’t it doesn’t bother me at all if he charges to be a guide in what can be quite complicated areas. It is work of a kind, and I suppose it incurs expenses and time. Not the type of work I would personally want to pay for (I have no need for a gatekeeper) but if people want a product…

My only issue is in his proclamation that he has the truth, that there are right and wrong ways to do things, that one experience or interpretation is more worthy than another. The experiences of others are sometimes worthy of study and debate but really when it comes down to it they are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. These are highly personal experiences and, I think, are only really relevant to those that have them or those in direct contact with the subject. Other than that they are just interesting.

people pay money all the time to take ayahuasca with people who definatily qualify as shamans or curranderos..why should they have to do everything for free? Noone wants to live in a cardboard box. The difference between 20 bucks for a ceremony and 200 bucks though is HUGE. People should not have to feel belittled or less than ideal for recieving some sort of trade or offering for the skill they provide. If they live in a mansion and drive a lexus it is another thing altogether.

It is not that he charges some money that makes him a charlatan..it is the way he presents the whole thing and the way he seems to handle himself..the guy has no grace, or at least does not let that part of him do the talking.

IMO though, if someone is making it by okay working in this way with people/clients, they should not be inclined to turn away some sick person just becasue they cant pay what they are asking. At some point you have to realize that this is a gift that involves spirit, and spirit does not keep track of numbers this way. Doing so might be a road to hell, speaking metaphorically.

Within my "circle" my friends simply contribute through socializing, giving me the pleasure of their friendly company, they help doing the dishes, buy food&herbs etc, ... They make their stay well deserved. We also stay over at eachothers places, befriending our different friends etc.

We talk thoroughly about our experiences and help eachother understand their significance and meaning, at least these are the things I value. Most importantly we don't fixate our rituals around the substance itself alone, but we talk about life in general.


If someone were to simply offer me money, I'd probably be offended.

Such a useless thing as money does not form a proper bond between the shaman and the apprentice IMO.

That really can’t be compared to someone offering a service to people outside of those they know personally. It is a different kettle of fish entirely. It is quite normal in the places that the culture arose from for the guide/shaman/whatever to be paid. People cannot live off thin air and goodwill. Like it or not it is a service and business in many environments.


This is the way I approach work, albeit in a totally different area (I am a creative/technical worker). My work is expensive and out of reach for most and I realise that. Worthy causes can use my skills for what they can afford, whether that is at a reduced rate or free (probably why I am not that rich!). Whatever I give away comes back to me in some form or another anyway

This is a completely different paradigm you are talking about though. Between friends is a different topic altogether. You are not a currandero running a ceremony for like 10-15+ people every week..imagine you paying, or even growing THAT much caapi and admixture and then being expected to brew it all and just run free ceremonies for everyone without any compensation?

I will drink with small groups of people sometimes, like every 2 months or so..and that is like mayabe 3-4 other people at the most and I would never charge them becasue they are always people I know that are either my own friends or a friends friend or someone my gf works with etc that is interested in it. This is different though from a currandero running large weekly sessions, which in most places outside of south america, means paying $$ for caapi which is not cheap.

I am NOT saying I support Martin Ball in what he is doing, but I am saying that someone being supported for offering legit skills when it comes to this sort of work is NOT necessarily bad or immoral or a lesser form of practice and I think to view it that way is really a naive view of the shamanic world. Go to peru, you will openly see large san pedro cuttings and caapi and mapacho being sold in markets, will respected curranderos there buying these supplies they use to heal..of course people are going to donate something if and when they can afford it becasue it is fair to do so, I think it is rude to demand work on this level for free if you can afford to support the person back in some way. It is like western people going to peru and bitching about how it is normal for locals to pay(yes they do pay for ceremonies) like 1 chicken etc, while westerners pay hundreds of dollars to drink at retreats. The fact is that 1 chicken to a local in say, iquitos is ALOT compared to what it would mean to one of us, and if we cant even deal with giving up something on an equal level with what a local might give up than I think we have no place being there expecting to benifit from the gifts these people have when poorer locals who appreciate it more can take our place.

All that money being made by the natives through the "ayahuasca pilgrimage" movement is doing good things anyway and allowing people to keep their land and moke money instead of selling it to gas companies or logging etc. It is saving both the traditions of currandismo and the amazon at the same time.

I have had such 'revelations' as well, where i was convinced i was envisioning 'the truth'.

The nice thing about the DMT-nexus is that i can just make a post about such an idea, and that within a day or so, there will be at least one reply from one of the many intelligent and critical thinking nexus-members here, that will show me where i was wrong.

That´s how you learn.

I don´t think terrence mckenna was a charlatan, but i do think that many people take his views too seriously, as well as 'the spirit molecule'.

People shouldn´t take psychedelic´s too seriously anyway: it will lead them preaching about machine-elves, spirit realms or the oneness of all, etc.

Some of the greatest minds in history have wasted their talent on seeking evindence for the existence of god and they have all failed.

To think that simply taking a drug will in an instant reveal something that was intellectually, philosophically or spiritually, way out of reach of people who have devoted their entire life to 'finding the truth', like aristotle, descartes, kant, newton, copernicus, einstein, wittgenstein and all of these other great minds who all worked very hard, disciplined and methodically, is at least a bit narcissistic.

Well put poly trip. Concluding after all of the input is my favorite part.