So first of all, do you actually believe that the interests of the financial centre of london are best served, by keeping the financial sector as unregulated as it was before 2008? Is having looser regulations then any other place has, realy giving the city of london a competitive edge? Is having to bailout banks all the time realy in the best interest of the british taxpayer and the overall economy?

I know, you´re a tory. What does that word tory mean again? Doesn´t it mean something like 'pirate' or 'thug'? Isn't it true that you conservative's gave yourself that nickname?

That does seem to sugest a little that you're quite alright with this reversed robin-hood model, that those casino-bankers have imposed on the british economy.

So, you're willing to blow-up the euro, so that the bankers who stole billions of savings from ordinary citizens can keep playing bets with savings and tax revenue's?
Do you think that the city of london would realy be spared from a global financial meltdown when the euro disintegrates?

Why have you brits joined the EU in the first place? I get the impression that it's not to build-up something toghether from the ashes of the numerous wars that have plagued our tiny corner of the world. You want to have influence on something you don't even want to be a part of. Why?

I think i know why. I think you're more occupied with preventing france and germany from overshadowing you economically, than to make something of your own eroded economy.

You still call them 'frogs' and 'krauts' do you?

Well, may i remind you then that although you may think of yourself as a superiour civilisation, it´s not just german history that´s filled with war and bloodshed. You can find a long record of terrible crimes against humanity when you dig in ANY nations history, including the british history. History has not shown britain civilisation to be morally superiour in any way at all.

Do you realy think that you're this superiour, that you can be a superpower without europe, a big empire?
May i remind you then, that britain only has a population of 62.5 million people. That this is not even 1% of the world population. You're not even in the top-10 of largest nations.
This is the current top-10:
1-china, 1350 million
2-india, 1200 million
3-united states of america, 310 million
4-indonesia, 270 million
5-nigeria, 200 million
6-pakistan, 190 million
7-brazil, 180 million
8-russia, 145 million
9-japan, 128 million
10-mexico, 105 million

As you might know, population growth is also much bigger in most nations you probably think of as inferiour, than it is on your little pirate-island.
Actually, the economy's of those nations are also growing faster than your economy is shrinking.

Within 20 years, britain will not be among the G8 of largest economy's. Britain won't even be in the top-10 of largest economy's anymore...you won't be able to stop that, though i know you'd love to if you could.

As a matter of fact, no european economy will be in the G8 anymore. Not even the german economy, or the french.

A divided europe, will have become one of the insgignificant parts of the world. You know this, do you?
May i remind you then, that britain is a european nation, whether you like it or not.

What will become of the city of london, do you think, when europe has become an insignificant, impoverished part of the planet?
Is the financial hub of africa one of the leading financial centers in the world? Do you realy think it will be that different for london then, when the part of the world it's supposed to be the financial gateway to, no longer counts in any way?

What will you have reached then? You'd become a totally soevereign nation, just like you say you want so desperately.
Soevereign, but situated on an insignificant part of the world. Sovereign, but insiginificant itself. Soevereign, but not able to have a say in any global event. Soevereign but not able to have a say in it's own economy....or at least not as much as the chinese, indians, americans, brazilians, russians, indonesians, mexicans and maybe even pakistani will have.

Is that realy what you want?

To soevereignly wallow in your long, long faded 'glory'?

Well, if soevereignty is such a great thing then..why not give it to the scots and the welshmen? I know they'd like some soevereignty as well.

Do i hear you say that that's a different thing? "toghether we english, scots and welsh can be great and powerfull"?
Yeah, right...toghether, we are just visible enough to be allowed to walk on america's leash, you would mean. America, for your information, has a special relationship with only two countries: israel (for religious reasons) and china ($).
Not with britain. You've got nothing to offer to them: you're not 'the promised land', you're no economical powerhouse, you don't have a strong military, you're not a technological powerhouse either...

All you've got to offer is your utterly misplaced disdain for the french, they can take advantage of every know and then.

Europe is big..over 500 million people, largest economy of the world, larger than NAFTA, etc.
Britain, and any other european nation for that matter, is small. Very, very small.

So goodluck with your soevereignty, mr cameron. Sleep well.....Don't dream about the future too often.

And dear mr cameron. If you'd happen to read this....i think you're an ass.

Polytrip, i think you need to wind your neck in a little.



This ^^^^^^ is not exceptable and is a disgracefull thing to say. I am a Brit and i am in no way in favour of our current pathetic government but this is not attacking Cameron, its attacking brits, i had nothing to do with these things you accuse the brits of, and bringing something like concentration camps into your little rant is not a very clever thing to do.

What country do you come from? im sure i could drag through your history to find many horrific things done by your countrymen and then lay that at the feet of all the people in your nation even when they were born many many years after the event.

Im sorry if i have taken your post the wrong way, but this does not read like an attack on Cameron it reads like an attack on people like me.

I agree with 3rdI,

By dragging history of Britian into this, you are not making the case against Cameron any stronger. Things that are done in the past by great, great, great, great grand parents and so forth are not what people are doing and thinking today. Society evolves and so do the people making up that society.

I think it would be wise to change your post to not attack the Brits, in a sense many British people are the victims of Cameron too.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

Ok, i will change it.

But i don´t think i was attacking britains, but the misplaced sense of superiority that is deeply rooted in british culture (as well as in the culture of too many other european nations), using words such as krauts (wich IS common in england).

It was tatcher who was against the unification of germany because they´d innevitably would go to war again (because 'that´s just what all the krauts are like', seems to be the thought)

Point is that indeed, you can find terrible things when you dig in the past of ANY nation. And britain is no exception of that, contrary to what many britons seem to believe.

The notion of ethnocentrism has first been noted by herodotus 500 bc. It is a pretty universal thing to believe that ones own community/nation/whatever is blessed with a superior culture. But i agree that some nationstates allow this to be more prominently displayed. In germany for instance, this behaviour is generally frowned upon. That does not mean that there aren't many nationalists or even worse - on the contrary. But it's not as much a mainstream thing as in other nations ...think of turkey for instance, very nationalistic. Or France....

To be fair, there is a very popular expression similiar to "krauts" that is "Inselaffen" which means "Island Apes". But such a derogatory term would never be used in the media.

PS: I thought this thread would be adressing james cameron and be about Avatar

Unfortunately, i do not live on pandora.

Nationalism has brought europe and the rest of the world with it, on the brink of destruction many times before.

If the european union disintegrates, it is likely that we europeans will be slaughtering-off eachother again within this very century...i DON´T believe we are so superiour that we wouldn´t do those things anymore. I don´t believe any of that at all.

We won´t be able to rebuilt europe one more time. Not with the kind of destruction our current technology allows us to cause.

We have the historic and moral obligation to overcome nationalism. We have this obligation towards both our ancestors as to our grandchilderen.

I don't really understand the purpose of this thread. I doubt Mr. Cameron actively follows the DMT-Nexus, so,
what are you trying to show here? Seems like this week we're bashing Europe and maybe next week we can get
back to bashing the United States?



Overcome nationalism in favor of what? I was born in the US. My forefathers fought in numerous US wars. I believe
this country was founded on something good and just. Therefore, I have a natural love of this county and of my
fellow Americans. Does that justify every action of the US? NO!

I don't see this form of nationalism being some dark evil force I need to cleanse myself of.

In europe, nationalism has lead to countless deaths and many more lives destroyed.

The future of over 500 million people´s lives depends on what will happen to europe as a union. Thát´s what´s at stake....it´s not a little thing at all.

Can you expand on this a bit? I understand the Euro is in serious trouble but am curious what we here on the DMT-Nexus can do to help the situation. Otherwise, it just comes off as another political rant.

Nationalism tends to give this false sense of superiority and blinds people. Not everyone is intelligent and able to reflect about their love for their country. If you are attracted to an ideal ...perhaps that of the founding fathers and call that nationalism - fine. We all have ideas about how things should be done. But it can get scary very quickly if people fall into the trap of believing that a country is actually fulfilling these ideals to the fullest, giving all citicens a sense of moral superiority. This, inevitably. leads to agression....because one just can't fathom why someone got a different opinion.

This problem also exists in Internet Communities.

And yes, this is a rant. But it's better to speak ones mind once in a while but to take it all in and go insane. A lot of people are very afraid about what's going on, not only in Europe, but also the US.

Yea i agree here

Nationalism isn't usually merely love for ones country and citizens. It can have many meanings: "In some cases the identification of a national culture is combined with a negative view of other races or cultures. It can be a belief that citizenship in a state should be limited to one ethnic, cultural, religious, or identity group, or that multinationality in a single state should necessarily comprise the right to express and exercise national identity even by minorities. It can also include the belief that the state is of primary importance, or the belief that one state is naturally superior to all other states."

IMO nowadays i see it as being mostly detrimental. I don't identify with any country strongly besides the fact that i was born and live there. I think nationalism (and nations in general) blinds most people from the fact that we are all humans on one earth, and that it just creates another illusory separations between us all (a lot of the time)

ok this is a bit of an exaggeration but you get the point http://www.ritholtz.com/...rld-accordign-to-USA.jpg

Well...

I enjoyed reading the OP anyways

I nead to blow of some steam. It deeply concerns me.

You say you love america. I can understand that. America basically, is the soil on wich you live, it´s where probably most of your friends live, and your family, it´s probably the place where you had your first DMT experience, where you fell in love for the first time...

Well, europe is my soil. It´s not the netherlands. Because the essence of each european country, whether europeans want to see it or not, is that it´s european: you can clearly see it, whether you´re in italy, spain, france, britain or germany, if a building is midievel or art-nouveau, you can see italian influences in dutch culture, you can see that rembrandt is a northern-european instead of a dutch painter, just like rubens (belgian) or durer (german).

Dutch history is european history. There is no isolated french, dutch, british or italian history. We´re all influenced by the greeks, the romans, the holy roman empire, the spanish inquisition, the french revolution, the renaiscance, the world-wars, the cold war, the sixties, the fall of the berlin wall.

If the historic centre of prague would burn down, then not only the chech´s would lose something beautiful...it would also be my loss. Because i´m a european, not a dutchman.
If venice sinks into the lagune, than it´s also my loss. If some nut demolishes roman statue´s, then i also lose something beautiful. When i´m berlin, the remains of the wall mean the same to me as they mean to many west-germans and when i see a gothic cathedral, i don´t think i feel something different than a frenchman would.

Europe is my soil. A soil i share with over 500 million people.

I´d hate to see this soil, where most of my friends live, where i had my first DMT experiences, where i fell in love for the first time, i hate to see this soil burn down to the ground because of another war. I´d hate to see it empoverished, i´d hate to see it drained from culture and livelyness and i also would hate to see it washed away in the tide of the world economy.

That´s just how i feel.

Beautifully put.

I like to think of myself as European. Many brits don't even like to be called brits and would rather be English, Scottish, Welsh.etc. To me its just semantics and small town mentality/football rivalry, immature.