I'm pretty sure there was an episode of House that had this whole left-brain right-brain personality thing. Not saying you should believe everything you hear on House, but if you're interested in it, maybe it'll bring some light to inspiration for your own theories.

No offense, but personally I don't get why a lot of people think rick strassman hasn't taken dmt. In his position he obviously cannot admit to it for certain professional reasons, but i think its obvious he takes psychedelics.

To say you can make conclusions about something without having direct experience is true, but they're likely to be less accurate without the experience-depending on what your talking about and concluding of course. I mean i can make a whole bunch of conclusions about what its like on the moon, or in ww2, that 1+55=56, or the andromeda galaxy, or to give birth, without ever being around or doing those things. But to come to any stone conclusions on the nature of the experience of these things is silly because i haven't been there, i don't really know what its like and means to a person. I have no idea besides what i've read about and seen so to say what it felt like and what the experience of it really was and meant is just speculation that becomes more and more baseless as the conclusions move toward talking about what an experience is actually like. And the psychedelic experience is just that, an experience. And its probably the hardest experience a person can try and bring down into language to explain to those who haven't or have had it because its an extremely complex inner journey within where conceptualizing it all rationally doesn't compute. so to say you can have a comprehensive understanding of the nature of the experience without having it, especially a psychedelic experience, just seems ridiculous to me

I feel really stupid for never having considered that myself. It still doesn't change that I was a bit put off by the ending of the book in which he speculates about the nature of the really strange experiences and goes on about parallel universes, as though the experiences themselves had no spiritual meaning whatsoever. Maybe I misinterpreted his words, I'd love to be proven wrong on this account.

To the original topic, I've had pretty strong experiences with shrooms and don't know if this is along the same lines: Once (though there was no false trip at the beginning) I encountered an entity that communicated to me through vibrations and 3-d geometric shapes, like stellated platonic solids and the likes, constantly shifting to convey some kind of message to me.
This being felt entirely alien, extra-universal. I spent the better part of my trip speaking to it, mentally. In the end it conveyed to me, that it wanted to live inside of me, and I accepted. From then on it has lived inside of me at the back of my throat, where it said, the center of my consciousness resided. A silent passenger.

Another time I did have the false-trip scenario and then the lift-off, but this time no entity. Rather my existence expanded beyond the limits of my body and melted into the very fabric of the cosmos. It was a bit difficult to get to that point because something inside me was struggling against it vehemently. At some point this part was overpowered (fortunately, because it was being a pretentious little self-centered prick) and I suddenly understood so much about the universe and lots of things about myself and the self-deprecating nature of my thoughts etc. (I was depressed at the time and got better afterwards)
Around that time I began wondering whether the entity I had encountered in my previous trip had truly been alien, or rather just a higher version of myself. My future so to speak.

Although these are quite different from each other and different from what you explained, I still think the experiences belonged to shroom-space. Never really connected to any bodily-functions entity though.

Strength and Courage!

I don't think that should the experience actually be of the kind of nature of experiencing a parallel universe be true, that it should necessarily detract from the spirituality of the experience, especially if one were to believe that spirituality is inextricably linked to a parallel plane of existence.

I had such a similar experience, I'm almost aghast at how you've described it. Mine would switch between organic curved evolutions to something like the puzzle box from Hellraiser, shifting and clicking in impossible ways. It followed me around my body for about 3 days before taking up residence in my chest.

When it first showed up, it communicated through geometric patterns, and had me form 2-D expressions with my fingers which would then expand out into higher dimensional topologies.

Possibly. Sounded more detached than that in the book though. In any case I don't like the phrasing of parallel universe etc. (I know it's just semantics, but still) If anything, I like to think of it as tuning in to certain aspects of reality, that are not displaced, as the word parallel implicates, but rather exist superimposed and we are either on- or off-resonance with them.
And as far as reality goes, IMHO there's just one reality, and it encompasses all physical and imagined worlds, anything conceivable, anything we can experience. There is no such thing as not real, it's just a matter of what can interact with what, that make us believe that some things are more real than others. But if we can think it, then it's real...

*rambling*

@ragabr
That's pretty cool. And three days, wow! I still felt mine in my throat every time I would inhale for a few days, but eventually it dissipated. Do you still feel yours? I wonder if it's still there, just below my ability to perceive it...

@Enoon - Haven't felt it in quite a while. Basically, since it entered me. I also haven't had any mushroom doses higher than threshold since, either. That whole event rocked me to the core. I will try again soon, when there's enough free time to process it all. Cheers.

Great thread.



Hmm, do you think that each of these actually has its own space? I wonder if what you're visiting could be the same "space", merely viewed through different lenses, as you describe in your post. Mushroom "space" is the same as DMT "hyperspace", just viewed through the lens of the mushroom. Can you describe what Mescal-cacti or LSD space are like? After partaking of Trichocereus cacti, I often feel like I'm in the desert, bathing in the sun, but a few times I've gotten hints of an "underwater realm", very bubbly and full of technicolour jellyfish and all sorts of strange and unknown creatures. I had read comments about how eating cactus can make you feel like a cactus before ever eating the cactus myself, so that part could be due to my previous expectations, but I don't know how the "underwater" realm came about, especially considering that I live in the mountains, far from the coast. Also I've never experienced an LSD-space, only a complete dissolution of myself and surroundings, so could you describe what that's like?

Yesterday, after smoking for the first time in a few weeks, quite a large amount of marijuana I walked down to the place where I had entered Shroomspace and first experienced the entity inside me. To much of my amazement, when I walked down I felt a surge of organic Shroomspace vibrations rattle through my bloodstream. It was gone just as soon as it appeared.

My entity resides at the center of my circulatory system. Not in my heart, but thriving inside, outside, and around my heart.

You're right, it did sound more detached in the book, but I think that was in due to the nature of the diverse audience that the book brings in; if he were overly-spiritual in his hypotheses it would turn off many readers. To me, one of the big points of the book was to attempt to merge science with spirituality, and show how they may be very much one and the same to some degree.

Ok, this is a bit off topic - but the idea of combining science and spirituality has been circling in my brain now for a while. Yes they can be combined and in some aspects they are similar. We can go about spirituality in a scientific way, or we can find spirituality in science (e.g. particle/wave duality or Bose-Einstein condensate to name a few). Something that throws me off though is trying to rationalize spirituality with a scientific approach.
Let's take empathy, which in my opinion is a very spiritual emotion. If we begin to rationalize this emotion we can explain why we think it makes sense for our lives, for our societies etc to be empathic. Also we can explain away why our brains are made to mirror emotions and to feel empathy - it has certain survival values. We can actually prove that seeing someone get hurt sort of makes our own brains fire the same kind of impulses as though it was us getting hurt. This is all quite fascinating...
Alas there's nothing spiritual about it anymore though. Now it's just a function in the brain that has survival values for the single being and the collective. What I'm saying is science is often satisfied with answers that leave the spiritual part of me unsatisfied.
Empathy to me is an expression of how we are in truth always connected to everything. The function of the brain and its emergence is a reflection of the state of universe as such. IMHO the physical laws (or are they more just facts?) that govern the evolution and annealing of energy gave rise to consciousness and everything in existence today; within the very nature of space/time/energy/mater were the seeds of life, unfolding into an immensely complex pattern that we are now all joined in, as holographic parts. I'm not sure science can prove this. But it can certainly inspire it. In combination with...

Sorry, I know this doesn't really belong here ;_;

Well one thing you gotta take comfort in is that science claims to know everything and nothing at the same time. Just think about how many times for example the brightest men in the world have thought they knew exactly how the atom works. We're still not sure. Scientists say one thing today, and the contrary tomorrow. You have to take what scientific evidence you can and try and find parallels in your own spirituality. Spirituality and what it means and does differs from person to person, so unlike with science where scientists can present empirical evidence to draw tentative conclusions, the same cannot be done globally with spirituality. That's what Strassman's book in a large part did for me, was to say here's this scientific data about the pineal and psychiatry and whatnot, and then in addition to things he said, I drew my own spiritual conclusions based on that data. So unfortunately, we won't have any hard and fast evidence for spiritual conclusions, but we can do our best to take note of them, and share our observations with each other.

Through some adventures, I have discovered that for me, the easiest way to breakthrough to Shroomspace is with tea. Although the experience is noticeably shorter, I feel that the tea is easier to navigate with then with fungus. Also, I have noticed now that when I am about to breakthrough, I feel a synergy, and this tells me the breakthrough is coming so I have more time to prepare.
Yesterday, I made a 4g tea with 2g of passion flower leaves just for experimentation. I didn't put too much passionflower in, and I wasn't expecting much, but there was some differences. For instance, when I broke through, I had normal Shroomspace feelings, blood rushing, synchronized with music, all knowing mind-state. I even greeted the entity I know and love. But things got way different when I experienced the VISIONS. I have never had visions on mushrooms, I have had visuals, CEV and OEV. Mostly just morphing of my perception, but as you Nexians probably know, visions, are much different then visuals. The first vision I experienced was strange, I did not know what to think of it, I was sitting in the woods next to a tree, enjoying my time in space. Then my eyes spoke to me. They exited my eye sockets to explore the non-physical universe. Much more happened, but I find it hard to recollect. Anyway, Mushrooms seem to just get stranger and more complex all the time. The passionflower definitely contributed, but in a different way. The more you know, the more you realize how little you know.

Hey Now... Lysergify,

Well, any time an individual attempts to describe such experiences that occur on levels far beyond the normal range of awareness, the words fall so short it can be quite frustrating. That being said, it is one of the most important things I can think of, to try and assimilate such levels (frequencies) of expanded consciousness. This process can take many forms but sometimes contemplation is the appropriate tool at hand. Which, is like saying that a small pebble is the appropriate projectile to toss at the sun, with the expectation of actually hitting it! Obviously, when speaking of alternate "spaces", we do tend to mythologize and/or parable-ize the experience, to provide a readily accessible medium, so as to more easily find common ground and mutually relate to. In light of this fact, I would say that there are distinct differences in these chemically induced spaces. Yet, as you wisely infer, they all do take us to that spiritual place, far beyond the boundaries of our ordinary conditioned selves, which leads to merging with the Void of the Clear Light (as Timothy Leary used to put it).

In light of this similarity, there are subtle and not-so-subtle differences between Shroom-space, Cacti-space, LSD 25-space, DMT-space and especially... Salvia Divinorum-space.

Without going into a book and a novel, I would have to say that my previous reference is still the best way I know how to describe those differences. We all know that is is far more complex than differentiating between a beer buzz, a wine buzz, whiskey buzz and a vodka buzz. While they each have their characteristics and flavors, they are all chemically alcohol, period. Psychedelic Medicines, however, do create their own completely unique realms or "spaces". So, as there are fundamentally separate frequencies of consciousness, each is residing within their own alternate universe, so to speak. We've all been there and seen that, so I think it can be more of a game of semantics, sometimes, however sincere we are to communicate. In a nut-shell, I would say that for me, before and after the self-shattering of ego-death, I witness these states almost as if they were various lenses to view the cosmos and oneself. There are, however, distinct realities which each commands and we react to them as individuals, at various stages of awakening and ultimately... we dissolve into the highest frequency, which is God. Each of these medicines helps us to understand tiny fragments of the whole. The goal of the lessons may be more mirror-like than directly instructive but it's wisdom is received according to the receptivity of it's witness. Enough of philosophy, though... all i can offer are my experiences and how I translate them into my individual cosmology.

I have had two extremely powerful examples of these differentiations, both of them were many years ago. I will try to be brief and move through the general storyline of the first journey and save the other one for another reply to this thread. OK?

The first time I really got the profound realization that tripping isn't just tripping and that there are separate "spaces" for each of these medicines, I was still in my early twenties and it was the late seventies. We had taken Mescaline 3 or 4 hours before sunset and then hiked to a wonderful vantage-point to watch the colorful show and set up our camp site. Of course, along the way we burned plenty of reefer (that's what we called Ganja in those days). We ascended to a gorgeous mountainside ledge with a long stip of clearing, which overlooked the foothills and valley bellow. By now, we were tripping pretty hard and it was such a beautiful sunset I was in tears. It was my very first Mescaline experience and I loved it! I felt like I was invigorated by the force of nature and united with a Sacred Geometry of sorts. I was seeing all kinds of turning geometric patterns and mind-blowing intricate designs, superimposed over everything and also a transparent luminosity, meticulously encoded within EVERYRTHING, with eyes open or closed.

I experienced intense synthesia, as I had before on LSD-25, and could taste the colors in the sky and all around us. I could smell the sounds of the birds and our beating drums, hear the silence between the layers of sounds and in-between my heartbeats. I drank the clean, fresh mountain air in gulping mouthfuls! Cacti or it's derivatives, always make me somewhat euphoric and feel almost child-like. Even the simple act of taking footsteps, becomes a magical journey through the enchanted woods! It was a very mythological and other-worldly state/space. My ego had gradually been shaved away and I couldn't really distinguish where my boundaries began or ended... and where the rest of the Universe began or ended. Everything was melding into a cohesive whole. A balanced totality on unified mind. I had the sudden panic that the lines that separated these levels would dissipate forever and the "I" that was home, was to be lost to me. This mood was replaced with a giddy apathy and a profound surrender. I was laid bare before the God of the Living Cactus, of the living, intelligent Universe and that vast unknown silence of the Void.

I had read the Carlos Castaneda trilogy and was eager to embrace Mescalito. Really, I was approaching this Deity with great expectations and excitement. As I settled into the rhythmic trance-state we had woven with our drumming, drinking in the sweet breeze. There was something so timelessly organic and... Shamanic about Mescalito, that I was rocking back and forth in a blissful whirl of drunken ecstasy. I had transformed into the living embodiment of the luminescence of the fantastic sunset. I had become transfixed by an intelligent, ancient flame, who lived within the blazing power of the stars. This was the first time that I felt a connection to an inter-galactic web of eternal shamanic forces at play. It felt almost like an ancient initiation into a great tribe of illumined wisdom-seekers and inter-dimensional travelers. The interconnected family of the One Light. More than that, even, it was as if we were part of a great pattern of radiant, spiralling energy, all centered around the setting sun's magnificent radiance! All three of us had joined with a specific frequency of cosmic mind, which would equate to "Cactus-space".

I completely concur with Lysergify. One truly does feel like the cactus or the mushroom one imbibes in. This is especially true for organic Medicines! Just the smell of them tunes me to the innate nature of the plant. It's definitely an instinctual feeling thing. An enchanted level of harmony and deep understanding about what is universal and what is mere illusion, dawned on us. Sort of like reading spiritual truths, written in the language of nature and the mother galaxy that we are birthed by? Our drums became our souls voices and our voices were the voices of all that had lived before us, all who live and all of those who would live, when our present physical forms were no more.

We drummed as we watched the sinking sun staining the summer sky with the most vivid sunset I have ever witnessed (and I seen some doozies). As we were approaching our Mescaline peak, we injested some very clean purple microdots of LSD-25. I believe we each had 3? Yes, that's right. Previously, 2 weeks earlier, I had had 2 of these purple micro-dots and they were plenty strong enough to get off on just one... but we knew that we had been tripping on the Mescaline for hours and wanted to be sure we'd feel the acid. Well... we sure did!!! As the LSD entered our psyches, it was if everything became a cool, oozing rainbow of liquid. The heat I had felt from the Mescalito, changed into what we used to call, "chilly laughter". Yeah, sort of impersonal and metallic, in some ways? Super electric, billowingly expansive and sort of... has an alien quality? which make s all things appear new and mysterious, at the same time.

There is always such a power pulling sensation I get from LSD. I am usually drawn deep within and propelled into the fire of an infinitely-expanding awareness of mind. I wouldn't go as far as some of my friends, that LSD is an agnostic chemical. I see it as the ultimate Zen state, so to speak. Nothing can retain finite form under the experience. I guess it's the tryptamine element that makes it so transcendental? I have been to similar "spaces" on psilocybin mushrooms many, many times and DMT, the one time I was blessed to journey with it. My crown chakra is fully activated and I project into subtler and far subtler frequencies of consciousness.

I am drawn to that light of Light, like a moth to the flame. In fact, as darkness approached, we started our campfire and became transfixed by the blazing fire. After a few hours of burning wood, a nice bed of brilliant coals was cradled by the burning sticks. Out of nowhere, a large Luna Moth flapped. It flew directly into the center of the campfire and as it was instantly incinerated... it's wing flapped with blinding speed, as it hovered stationary. We could all still see the fading energy form of the moth, as it was absorbed into the heat and light of the flames. This seemed quite profound to me, at the time. I occurred to me, that we were like the moth, equally drawn the the light. It seems as if the tribal awakening we had previously gone through was still active and the acid only intensified this primal rhythm (which beat in our hearts and flowed like quicksilver within our veins).As the peak gradually came on... I had begun to merge with a self which was both familiar and also completely unrecognizable. Who am I?

The spiralling whirl of fractal hallucinations, that had been dancing before my eyes for hours and hours, were bleached-out into an overall blinding luminosity, that washed-out (and essentially, devoured) all the parameters of the witness and that which is witnessed. The cosmic force of the entire universe seemed to rush up my earthly, sentient spinal column. This reminded me that I had a physical form and I felt more alive than I had ever before. That being said, I cannot really put it into the right words, as they are so limiting for connecting the experience to a storyline. To me, LSD is practically equivalent to The Light. the pure and unbound light of Infinity. It washes away all the lines that separate one thing from another and dissolves the preconceived differences from one point in time & space, to another. From one form of consciousness to another, as All is One.

It has often made me feel an affinity with the situation of the Biblical Moses, as he fell helpless before the Omnipotence of the Burning Bush and trembled at the sheer power and indivisibility of God. And yet... who is God and who am I? What is God and what is not God? If all is God and nothing is truly separate from anything else, nor apart form the same building block of energy... what is not God? So, I guess for me, this is LSD-space. Been there a whole lot of times, although not for 19 years now. Where I could palpably sense the feminine Mother Deity of Mushroom-space and the masculine Father Deity of Cactus-space (Mescalito), I find LSD-space to be both, androgynous and ungraspabley transcendent. I don't think this is necessarily a clinically sterile frequency of consciousness, rather, it seems like a blinding rainbow-hued radiance which can retain no form whatsoever. yeah, completely void of any discernible characteristics, at the peaking level. always drew me away from myself and into the emptiness of the absolute Oneness of being. I had this same Immortal sensation on my voyage with DMT, 30 years later, but waaaaaaaay faster and so joltingly sudden! admittedly, ego death is quite terrifying while it is de-birthing the subjective observer. "Super-explosively powerful"... I would emphatically proclaim!!!

Overall, the central truths we had embraced, were but the One Truth and it was the essence of purest love. The flavors of the lenses/windows we perceived them through, may have been variations of this Message of Oneness but they were also quite distinct in some very, very specific ways. There many paths to the summit but only one summit to reach, at the end of the journey. So, I can say I have experienced these views into the various states of reality and/or mergings with the indivisible consciousness of God, which are very high levels that devour the witness into the unfathomable emptiness of the Soul of All Being. Are these actually different "spaces" and not just alternate windows to view the dance of Divine Mind? I would say... both, "yes and no".

Like William James used to say, "There are no differences. Only degrees of difference, between differences of degree... and no difference."



Peace, Love and Light, Rising Spirit

I've never had anything like the op describes happen to me. I have perceived an endless grid superimposed on top of my ordinary view though. I felt like perceiving it through the center of my head and by paying attention to it I could make it stand out more. It didn't matter if I held my eyes closed or open, the grid was there for a good couple of minutes. And if I remember correctly I could move my head and observe different "areas" of the grid (it looked the same from all angles, just a grid with no extra details), so the grid was static looking and was really like a space where I was in.

I