SWIM recently bought a bunch of stuff from maya and one of their FREE products was 50% ECGC green tea extract.

SWIM didn't have high expectation for it other than maybe a stimulant, he capped 2 gel caps with 900-1000mg total
he looked online and one pill was 360mg ECGC so he figured that with 50% that was a decent dose.

about 30 minutes later he felt a little stimulated and was like "cool"
then he was just walking and he noticed his hand traced a bit, he was not totally suprised he gets that sometimes sober, but he motioned his hand slowly across his field of visions and exclaimed "No way!" because though small and almost transparent there were positive tracers
(he's sure, he's observed sober tracers A LOT while testing stuff that may or may not work)

SWIM figured he'd give it a try again with a higher dose, he doubled it to 1800-2000mg
SWIM is now VERY stimulated, not really uncomfortable yet, but not ALL pleasant.
Colors seems a bit brighter and the tracers are there again.
The tracers are very similar to that of THH or Caapi at medium/high doses, mostly transparent and quite short. But definitely there.

SWIM it intrigued with this and thinks it could be a substance to test in combinations for stimulation and possibly increased visuals.

SWIM wouldn't think it would be to nice with a large dose of mescaline but maybe a lower one.
He's not a big fan of shrooms, but he might try it with LSD (when he finds some)
Could be a nice way to stimulate a pharma with rue or harmaline, even with caapi.

SWIM just wanted to share the information, he'll update any new info when he discovers it.

This is very interesting! The polyphenols catechin and epicatechin from green tea is inhibitors of MAO-B, and the related substance gallocatechol binds to cannabinoid receptors. Maybe the reason behind the tracers is in one or all of these substances?

q21q21, I have experienced exactly the same thing from the extract same Maya extract.... I didn't mention it before for fear of it being placebo, but yeah, there is definitely a strong noticeable effect from that extract... I wish they'd hurry up and figure out what the deal is with green tea... I always found it to have an effect of well-being, when I was a teenager I would drink it after nights out and it would have a great replenishing effect.. but I wasn't expecting that stimulant effect from the extract.

also SWIM is a daily weed smoker, maybe some synergy there.

SWIM has smoked weed 6 times in his life, although there may be synergy, the green tea is definitely not placebo

Maya gave me some of the free extract ,too .
Thanks for this thread , it sounds like very interesting stuff .

Okay ! Now I have seen the tracers too .....! (:

Green tea extracts in *very* high doses have some potential links with liver toxicity.

http://www3.interscience...ct?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

If SWIMMERS are taking doses high enough to cause hallucinations that might not be a good sign.

It was actually very mild . 800mg of the extract is not what i consider a very high dose . But maybe it is .
Thanks for mentioning !

I have no idea what a high dose is really. But there have been a number of reports about this kind of toxicity. The health benefits of green tea are also often exagerated. Although green tea tastes nice and is overall good and healthy SWIM likes it. But there is no good reason (no proven health benefits have ever been ascribed to such preparations) to take green tea extracts its a waste of money and potentially risky.

thanks burnt, that's a good point with the ECGC extracts and liver toxicity, and they're talking about 700-2000mg daily, which I could've easily done... I've only done about a gram at a time maybe 3 times, haven't had it daily... but I have noticed this stimulant effect. Also I assumed ECGC had some positive effects, but I guess it's not worth the risk.

Drinking green tea even if often is probably 100% fine if not beneficial overall. But yea taking super concentrated extracts of phenolic compounds isn't necessarily a good thing. There is quite a discussion about the benefits and risks of antioxidants in general (I hate the term antioxidant everything is either an anti oxidant or an oxidant in a way). I remain extremely skeptical about the antioxidant craze sweeping through the dietary supplement industry. There are basically no real proven conclusive studies and in some cases contradictory studies to what people are claiming.

HOWEVER at normal doses found in food these kinds of compounds (flavonoids, phenolics, etc) appear to have some kind of health benefit even if the mechanism is still a bit mysterious. Although I highly doubt it has anything to do with antioxidant activity for reasons I don't want to get into right now (its long and complicated story).

In some cases this could just be marketing hype. Sure there are potential health benefits but people should realize that the herbal extract industry is just as ruthless and aimed at making a $$ (who isn't?) as the pharmaceutical industry.

Came in here to post what burnt said. To put things in perspective, your average cup of green tea has 1-2mg of egcg so taking a couple hundred miligrams by way of extract may not be best. I'm sure its not going to instantly kill your liver but its not something you should constantly take until futher research is done.

Read about caffeine or alcohol's chronic use side effects...

Taking it every so often to potentiate something couldn't be too bad, which is all SWIM would do (if it works)

If it is taken daily for tracers.... that might be a little much.

Anyway thanks for the info!

SWIM wonders if this effect is related to the enzymes in your liver being swamped with green tea phenolics which then causes the drug you took to remain in the system longer?

I definitely don't buy into the anti-oxidant effect, but maybe the ECGC is anxiolytic, with the tea I notice something, with the extract it is really noticeable... all the common perceptions of green tea can cloud your judgment...