I'd say the goal is to master your emotions, not to suppress then. If you evade difficult situations and emotions you end up fragile and unable to handle those once they arise. Meditation helps to contain whatever is going on in your life.

Fighting nasty entities can easily feed them. It's like with people who look for arguments.

Sometimes it's good to tell them they are not welcome. Strong puff of air which activates your muscles and gets you connected with your physical energy can work. Most important way to protect yourself is to live a peaceful and balanced life.

Thanks for clarification Jees. I think I do similar work during this period of my life, lots of self-reprogramming and re-conditioning.

What makes the cosmic joke funnier for me, is that when I started reprogramming myself, I came to a following problem: in order to make your new programs compatible with people around you, you might need to reprogram people around you. So you might do that - remove some people, or try to integrate other people into your new programming somehow, or get some new people into life. So what effectively you do by self-reprogramming is not only shifting your perception and processing of reality, but also modify the reality around you in some direct way.


Yep, very precise observation and this is the most important thing I need to work on.

Well the buddists and hindus (and myself) would argue that this entire 'reality' we're experiencing is simply an illusion, born from our bodies and the way they process and provide a non-stop feed of sensory information which our mind then perceives and projects back outward, creating the Graphic User Interface that we call reality. Our experiences interacting with this reality create emotional tags which construct the ego or what we think of as 'ourselves'; distinct individuals separate from one another, which is also an illusion. The idea in these religions/philosophies is that we're born into broken bodies that can only perceive a meager spectrum of infinity and the purpose of life is to fine-tune our bodies and unlock latent potentials in order to be able to see/experience the totality of the infinite.

In deep meditation, there's a state you can reach known as 'Samadhi' where you suddenly understand the interconnectedness of all things and the sensation in this state is one of absolute bliss. You get a taste of what it's like to be connected back with the oneness we're all born from; it's like being back in the cosmic amniotic fluid, and the universe is structured on universal love, so the feeling is so profoundly powerful and awesome that it's way doper than any high the material world can offer. Hardly a cage, and also why the buddhists say life is suffering...once you experience 'being one with everything' (and you have to experience it to truly understand this), you understand nothing the material world has to offer will ever come close to the feeling of being united back with the divine that birthed us.

However...and I think the Hindu's believe this...that's why this reality exists, supposedly. Just being one with everything gets boring eventually, so 'the source' created these dimensions that are structured around duality and conflict in order to experience and explore itself from different vantage points that oneness doesn't offer. I've been told many times on trips that we all chose our lives and it's a great honor that we even have the chance to live as humans. I've come to see the cycle of samsara (endless reincarnation) that we're all trapped in as more of an incubator than a prison. Either way, the purpose of living is to escape this illusory realty, or learn how to see beyond the veil of Maya. To accomplish this, one must gain mastery over their mind/body/emotions and make their body subservient to their consciousness (instead of the other way around). Developing that mastery is a key step in figuring out how to unlock your true potential (I'm talking kundalini activation via using breathwork to gain manual control over all your endocrine functions...when people talk about 'the mind-body connection' they neglect to consider that your mind IS your body, and control of the mind is essential to gain full control over the body). When Buddist monks are sitting around meditating, they're not just chilling in bliss, they're training. The mind is the hardest muscle to work out, and most of us have never even attempted to train it as we're not generally even taught that there's a greater goal to life than accumulating influence and material things.

Anyway, I myself have never had a bad changa trip, and even though I've met 'bad actors' they've always been easy to avoid. I credit the lucid dreaming I've been doing all my life as a reason for this. There was one time I was transported to a tube on a spaceship and I felt I had lost all my freewill and was simply being used as a battery, and that freaked me out (as I thought my consciousness had strayed into some dimension and become trapped there), but I just opened my eyes and I was back in the world.

My reason for starting this thread was meeting a 'bad actor' and then considering what could have happened to me had I not been as adept as navigating these DMT worlds as I am (or having the higher-realm protection I seem to have). Since I started this thread (and thanks to all the wonderful responses it's received so far), I decided I'm going to add a little chapter at the end of my novella about potential risks in hyperspace and ways to minimize them. Definitely going to mention Torping. Having never personally had a bad experience with changa, I super appreciate everyone sharing their experiences with negative entities and ways they learned to overcome them. Please keep them coming, as I think this is an important aspect of changa to share with the unfamiliar before they dive in. Thank you for your response <3 <3 <3

100% this. The idea with meditation is to learn how to 'watch' your emotions and thoughts pass by and not allow them to effect you.

Just a little interesting side note, down here in south america, one of the shamans I met told me that at the highest level, shamans will intentionally go to 'hell' in order to 'convert' negative or 'demonic' entities in order to 'save' them. Having empathy and compassion for all things, regardless of what they are or their perhaps negative intentions, is considered one of the most advanced qualities that can be attained. This is apparently an activity only to be undertaken by the most proficient shamans, but if someone can comfortably go to where negative entities dwell and face them and even try to help them stop being negative entities, what does that say about us and the power we have in these realms?

'most important way to protect yourself is to live a peaceful and balanced life' is real as fuck. In the bhagavad gita, they mention how if a person commits themselves to non-violence, any potential enemies will not even see them and pass them by as if they were invisible. I took a personal vow of non-violence 5-something years ago, and I've never even been in a situation where violence could happen since I took that oath, despite continuing to frequent 'dangerous' places and hanging out with with people who could be considered 'unsavory' or 'unscrupulous' individuals. The power of a balanced and peaceful life is enormous, and often understated.

Thank you for that response. Really resonated.

Thank you very much for these thoughts/ideas. I think this perspective can be very useful for people. I'm on team 'hyperspace entities are real and distinct from us, not just creations of our mind' but I'm also on team 'everything is born from a single mercurial energy and separation is an illusion' so I'm down with your hypothesis :-). There is truly nothing to fear as love is what underscores everything. Learning to overcome all fear is true freedom, but that's much easier said than done.

Thank you Changa_boi for explaining about Buddhism etc.. A lot of what you said resonates, extremely especially the Graphic-User-Interface thingy, see later.
It is nice to see many different approaches funnel down to the same basic principles, and those principles are merely... simple.

Training the mind/emotion activity looks like a hard thing to do but I've come to consider mind/emotions as just functional surviving facilities, like muscles. Suppose you let your muscle activities erratically move uncontrolled anyway they can, you would hit yourself by spasms and eventually injure yourself. It needs harmony of muscle management to become a nice moving whole. As do mind/emotions, there is a skill to yield. Or not, and status quo, I think this is not necessarily wrong, just another one of possibilities to go about. I enjoy a time of status quo now and then

Nevertheless surviving is also served by scouting new ways, discovering potentials not yet covered, and herein lies a risk 'curiosity killed the cat'. Applicable to both muscles and mind, like exploring the hardware body and it's 'software'. I think the latter is to be felt as a being-drawn to psychedelics for example, or what zen can offer, etc.. Let's be a curious but careful cat


Allow me to detail things I wrote before:
The way I tamed my tendency of having horrific dreams was addressed like anyone would address any human behavioral pattern, like stammer, or having a repeating twitch, it's all like a looping situation. Again I don't see much difference between a body hardware loop or a mental software loop, all being surviving potentials that got into a non serving looping pattern. To break the chain was very much seeing what is happening, and shedding light on the issue at hand (mostly: I am doing this) is most of the solution already. I felt not a victim of having 'an issue' but being the factory of this issue.

Once I got woke up in full adrenaline status I told myself: "now do not loose this state, keep at it, this is interesting, examine it!!" To my surprise I could hold on to the freaking status for a period, while the 'dream-story that was tagged to it' was already far gone.
I discovered that it was not the scary dream story that induced the adrenalistic status, but the other way around! My body executed an adrenal flush, and hence it was my Graphic User Interface that found an illustrative way to explain the feeling that I had. The CGI did just the same as it does in day time, to produce an image (story) that is the best bet co-axing with what-is-felt.

I found myself to be kind of addicted to adrenal release, for whatever reason, and an ideal circumstance was at night at sleep, when body sensory input is low as is my mental resistance.
I flushed myself with adrenaline on a looping pattern, and each time the CGI (dream) kicked in, producing another dream story to explain what I was feeling, being horrific story lines imagined.
In other words: being analytical about the dream contents was a wrong (say unsuccessful) way to solve my issue, because the dream was not the source at all, but just and only a way of the CGI to explain the felt experience.

Seeing/knowing-about this mechanics, repeating over and over (yes braking a pattern chain needs some efforts, as is with countering stammer or twitches) disclosed the mystery, shed light on it, expose it, is all it needs, no more, and this sun-light melts the ice slowly but steadily.

At night, I was like spasm muscles hitting myself, but not with muscles, yet with hormonal powers or the likes. Discovering these things was what I referred as 'wholesome framework' practices, addressing behavioral patterns.

What would have happened if I searched only for solace in efforts to protect myself against bad dreams? It would have been efforts in vain, betting on a wrong horse. It would have been like makeup on a sick skin, wiping dirt under the carpet.

It may now become more clear why I said that protection measures, in a more general way, can be cloaked practicing of fear, being counter effective in cases. Feeding fear eventually.

I've been hypothesizing to myself that the dmt experience is actually a bodily felt experience first and foremost, and the molecular over subsidized CGI making a hell of a visual scene, trying to match the enormous felt experience. My intuition very much steers this way.

Each time I see someone posting: "Hey I could literally FEEL the entity doing stuff to my body" then I can't resist thinking: maybe the bodily experience came first, and your super duper activated CGI drawed an entity to explain that feeling.
I can feel twitches left or right during the day, those don't get explained as entity actions during the day, but under the blanket of deems it can. Maybe I don't do entities fair justice enough, but then this is result of me haven't much encounters as such, and I know I'm not alone.

I admit when deep in, all this is theory (even when right) and of little use. Then the singing and voices are of use, they are tricks of the trade to re-arrange the prevailing winds. Shamans sing a lot, someone quite versed told me once: the icaro's are most important, more than the molecules itself, they truly make up for the reigning vibe, sober or deep in.
But doing the wholesome framework in advance (meditation etc), will preset at least to degree what is encountered in-there no doubt, sometimes this work is in progress and thus we run into the electric fence, thinking oh-dear here it is, somewhat too much

realy realy interesting topic... im sometimes thinking about creating a defense mechanism before going to the other side.
Like drawing a circle around my body with the intention that it should protect me.
When i think about stuff like this i always have to smile because thats what is done in movies and im not sure if this stuff does not come out of my head entirely.
But when i read stuff like this, i think we should make a thread about how to protect yourself in hyperspace.
Being possessed by a demon is one of the oldest stories every told and on the last breakthrough with a friend i had a feeling that a god is talking through his mouth and he was not him anymore.
This is deep water guys.

Which one came first: chicken or egg?

Hi Exitwound,
Chick + egg together: this would imply that all those little bodily feelings during the day, a little muscle tremor here, a spiking itch there, a sensitive spot anywhere, all those could as well be poking entities but we just don't notice them during the day as the veil is not lifted then. I think that's quite possible but I'm not running for that. If that is true one should be always protecting yourself from these oddities, then I think we end up being needlessly suspicious.

I believe it could be many things creating those bodily feelings, I'm not into the thoughts that it can be only entities doing this (unseen, and with dmt seen).

DMT makes me hyper aware/sensitive, last time a tv remote fell of the seat, I didn't see it falling but it hitting the ground was like a freaking explosion, same goes for bodily sensing. That plus an overly subsidized graphic centrum is filling in the dots.

I'm only opening a possibility that feels right to me. Once "in" just a thought or a suspicion or reflection or fear can become lifelike rendered as more real than real. I can do that in my dreams already to an extend, so why not a notch supercharged in moleculated sessions? Just my 2 cents, I don't know the truth.

Hey Jees, I think I understand your thoughts and agree with them.
I just keep thinking and rethinking my own experience and they come back to me periodically, not in deep form but noticeably enough that I am trying sill to integrate something, which hasn't become a full realization yet.
I also try to apply multiple frameworks and techings and trip reports and whatever information you might find on the subject of the great unknown.

So far I think that all these ancient teachings and modern esoteric texts are more or less either trip reports, or re-tellings of thee trip reports. Or interpretations (in frequent cases weak attempts at) of trip reports. I am not demeaning them by this, but rather find it very comforting, as they say, to be standing on the shoulders of giants and learn from their knowledge. They all mention beings of different alignment and allegiance, which typically can influence one's daily life, not maybe physically in most of cases but rather via other means.

I think that yes, typically no "external" or "alien" actors are involved in daily bodily functions or during most of our trips - it is our own imagination amplifying every sensory distrbance and playing tricks to us. Sometimes it feels conscious and independent.
But I also think you can go beyond that, beyond your imagination. And that's dangerous territory, as our brains might be suspectible to glitches from the audiovisual reprogramming received during such experience. I don't think it is harmless to trip deep. I think that door can open both way and your mental state can be attacked, especialy when you are vulnerable because you can bring back memories. Memory/memories or lack of such make mentally healthy or not healthy person and if your trip memory is traumatic mental torment, your daily well-being might be affected.
What you call this in the end, an evil entity or malfunctioning neurons - doesn't really matter because the outcome is the same.

Well said.

And yes it's a pity religions lost their original sources of inspiration, a relationship with plants, maybe that's why Harry Potter scored so well.

Hey guys, just wanted to drop a lil update on this for posterity.

So this podcast 'matt and shanes secret podcast' interviewed Julian Palmer, and they talk extensively about his experiences with 'torping'.

Here's the podcast: https://vocaroo.com/1oH5ImXRKDFm

Here's Julians thoughts on torping and malefic beings in hyperspace:

http://julianpalmerism.c...primer-malefic-entities/

http://julianpalmerism.com/torping-and-soplar/

In the podcast, he mentions the normal ideas about how 'when you open a window and can see things, they can see you as well'
But then he talks about how him learning to vanquish negative spirits seems to attract these entities to him. So now all his trips he has to spend a period of time vanquishing these negative entities.

I met some shamans down here in south america who told me the highest level for a shaman is where they voluntarily go into the 'underworld'and try to save or convert demons....they basically spend their trips going into hell to prosthelytize to the damned; not in a christian sense, but just as light-workers. I mentioned this in a previous comment, but seems all the more fitting to mention again in light of Julian's comments.

Does anyone have any experiences with 'killing' or 'destroying' entities they meet (I know from the archives that ppl here do)....but has anyone that has done that notice that put a bulls-eye on your back and mark you to be attacked by other negatives entities in subsequent trips, as Julian says?

Hope these pieces of media/ideas can add a little bit more color or spark some new threads of thought in this on-going conversation!

Hope everyone is having a great day! I love you all!

This is something I intuit. People in all traditions who extensively focus on exorcising and casting out evil spirits seem to get entangled with them. I can see psychologically why this happens. Best way to win is to win without fighting.

In the Buddhist code for monks (Vinaya) it's actually written that destroying these entities counts as killing and is thus forbidden. The ultimate goal should be to liberate them.

There is saying about "killing with kindness" when someone is nasty towards you and you refuse to play their game and no matter what they do, you don't return the hurt.

I believe the entities we meet are at least partially projections of our psyche, though there certainly seems to be a collective aspect included too. Very often these demons portray some part of us that has been hurt or is weak for some reason. If we hate them, we hate something in ourselves, we don't want to accept. It's often best not to give them the attention, when they seek in a bad way, like children when they misbehave. But you can still have compassion for them, even when you draw the lines you don't want them to cross. They are born out of hurt, some kind of twistedness. The karma is personal and impersonal at the same time. We inherit the hurt from our parents and the people we meet, but on a deeper level, seen from the point of interdependence, it's the same web we share.

This is one of the reasons I advocate for non judgment of these entities. We are most emotionally invested in the negative which increases the focus on the negative. When we can see that nothing is absolutely so and is contextual, the better management and "avoidance" we end up achieving. It's invaluable to learn to just be with them.

One love

And it's probably also showing us parts of ourselves we do not know very well. And that is even scarier.

The scariest entities i've come across where ones that tried to seduce me into something evil.
Usually by showing me something that is extremely beautiful, and telepatically telling me something like: "this could be yours". I always know that somehow it is a trap, but the scary thing is that part of me doesn't care, or doesn't care enough, and just wants to stare into that beautiful thing they're offering me.

But what's actually scary about it, is not so much the entity, but the fact that i could be weak enough to give in to temptation, even when the consequences would be awfull.

Apologies, I read this too fast the first time.



I find this really interesting and resonates a lot with me due having a sense of this in my approach to these entities. The heart of not passing judgment on them is compassion. One of my goals is to be confident "going anywhere" in hyperspace.



While I have no experience dispelling, killing, or destroying entities of any kind because I find it a bad approach in poor taste, I have received acceptance and "gifts" from some entities that at first glance could be viewed as negative or nefarious. Recently, I had a journey where I came across some dark entities that scared me. I judged them, making internal statements about them. I caught myself just as they decided to give me wonderful gifts without wanting anything in return. I spent the rest of that journey apologizing even when they weren't around anymore.



This reminds me of an observation that I've had for a long time ago: people that despise Christianity do so so vehemently that it still rules their lives through their acts of mocking, criticizing and insulting it, even to the point of creating religions (such as Satanism) that are supposed to directly contradict that religious paradigm. But through all their efforts, because they hate it so much, they are still controlled by it.





Because I play all sides of the fence due to difficult verification, I consider the above, but also consider that some of these entities may have nothing to do with me and my mind and being. That said, our approach to them should be the same, just viewed as though it were a person that is not you.

I have only been enticed in a questionable manner once, and it was a circular stone looking doorway that I chose not to go down. I simply had a bad feeling and so trusted my intuition in moving somewhere else in the space.

One love

I have been thinking about this and I believe there is truth to this statement.

I've been thinking about this. I believe some entities are more connected and some less connected to us. If we believe in the so called dependent arising that nothing exists independently all beings form a web of interdependence, of course the link is looser with some than others.

The ones that are difficult to ignore probably are somehow more connected to us than the ones that are easily dismissed.

I've written about the demons I've been battling with in another topic, but what you wrote made me wonder what part of these demons have a true, or more integral part of me in them and what part is tumorous energy, picked from various sources that is foreign to me, even though there has been some friction through which it has latched.

I believe finding that friction, the wound, can help in healing the tumor. According to the philosophy of interdependence these entities are empty of essence in themselves and are more like a cobweb of various nodes and those nodes can be loosened and the web can be untied,
even ripped apart, thus liberating whatever consciousness it held. But if we can't get to the root of what held it together in the first place (usually some genuine trauma of mistreatment and unskillful acts of dealing with it), trying to fight it may just strengthen the web of illusions. That is, if direct hate towards it, the hateful aspect may just get stronger. On the other hand, just being nice may not be enough, if the part that needs healing lacks paternal direction, or encouragement or whatever it is lacking in order to mature.

I'm a bit unsure if I have chosen the right words to express the concept, but I hope this makes some sense and I may be commenting a slightly different thing than what you wrote about, but it gave me the inspiration to think about it so I wrote about it here.

Thank you for your contribution!

I think you stated your idea very well. I initially made my statement in a broad manner on purpose because I try to run the gamut on these considerations/theories.

In my reply I'm going to couple the term "interdependence" with "interconnectedness" so as to balance the connotation of determinism with apparent will that minds have at various degrees. Kind of paradoxical situation.

I sometimes wonder if our interdependence/interconnectedness is something very simple and a things merely existing puts it into the paradigm, but there isn't as much meaning as we may think, ie there are degrees of more independence/interconnectedness than we sometimes think, at least internally. But I digress.

Back to your reflection though, I wonder if we're connected to some of these entities because we exist and they exist, but other than that we are foreign and alien to each other. From here we have varying degrees of subset levels in which this connection exists and maintains itself, having some being extant on their own but also symbolic of aspects of ourselves or things we go through, or the energies we possess and balance. Another paradox is that things are empty and full, so I sometimes wonder if they have essences of their own that are nothing like mine a subset above the fundemental of the essence of existing.

And so, yes, approach is completely nuanced and contextual. Sometimes we must have the iron no bullshit fist with them, other times kindness and compassion, etc, but above all, we seem obligated to never have malice in our approach as that only attracts those things which are that much more undesirable. An tough approach doesn't always entitled the negative and out of balance.

And like you, I'm wondering if I stated this well enough I did just wake up.
One love