ms_manic_minxx: Elves, fairies, Golems, Trolls, aliens, demons, gods, deities, archetypes, self transforming machine elves - whatever. People call them different things. You see where I'm going? Oh yes bro, you've said hi.

About this whole mess with the DMT elves being real or whatever, does it really matter? I think that, on the individual scale, it is much more important to see what we may learn from these experiences rather than how they occur. That we can have an experience of these beings says to me that they exist on some level or the other.

Most likely they are just a product of my own altered consciousness and aspects of myself, that is at least how I see it.
But that doesnt make it any less real for me, or any less profound. I still seek out these experiences, because they are so revolutionary different than our normal, everyday consesus reality. And these states may potentially teach us things of importance. But if these entitites are from different sources or a product of our own consciousness in the moment is a very good question, but impossible to answer unless we can perform some kind of studies that confirm either statements.

I mean, look at our western society and our analytical sciences. We have turned away from these things. This spesific chapter of our minds is a closed one for the most part (thanks to crazy acid priests like Timothy Leary), but substances like DMT gives us the chance to again open up the doors and the properties that our biological machine and our consciousness possess. Methods that very well may have been used since the birth of our species. It is, in my eyes, perfectly natural to ingest chemicals such as these to alter our sense of being. We have been doing it to a great extent for a very long time anyway, and it is a great way to explore!

It is interesting how such a ridiculous simple molecule compared to the amazing biological structure that is the human body can cause such radical changes in perception. The DMT molecule is a little simple structure compared to our very complex body. And the nature of these journeys are of great wonder and mystery that cannot simply be rationalized away as petty drug fantasies.

We can explain it through some known perspectives such as chemistry and neurology yes, but that is just (valid) perspectives of a phenomena that has in my mind several aspects worthy of exploration. It doesn't really explain the experience itself in the same way that science per this day have met serious difficulties in explaining how organized matter is capable of producing consciousness (whatever that is) and subjective reality perceptions. So we should keep exploring and keep looking through these lost chapters of our minds, and more serious research should and must be done.

Chemistry and physical structure is what makes it possible that our mind can have so many difference aspects and possible states to experience. They are on in the same. I don't see any conflict really. People see elves. People see people. People are real. Elves are either interdimensional (less likely) beings or figments of our imagination (more likely). Cold hard data can solve this mystery. I look forward to the future answers to such questions and the questions they will bring up.



I find that funny haha.

Yup, agreed. I didn't really mean to imply that there is any conflict, because I see none either. I was just saying that there are several aspects to the same phenomenon, and that the experience itself is an important one. The point is that we need something to work out from, and the experiences is what we are trying to explain right? Hell, experience itself (our human experience) is the starting point of it all. From looking up and experiencing the stars and wanting to explain it, from feeling the sun and wondering what the fuck it is, from chopping down matter into smaller bits and wondering what the constituents of it is, all the way to ingesting a certain natural molecule that drastically changes our perceptions and our experience of reality and wondering what the hell happened. This is what we're doing, and we're the only creatures on earth to do it. This is all part of the human condition. I like the saying "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself"

Me too. Who said that? Carl Sagan?

Yeah, Carl Sagan was the one. What a character =)

Yes I think he did great things for promoting science. I think cosmos is one of my favorite documentaries ever. I could watch the whole thing again.

The book is also pretty good if you haven't read it

Well here you go!!

Carl Sagan's Cosmos - on Hulu.com


My favorite episode is #10 "The Edge of Forever"!!!
That's the one where he goes into 2nd, 3rd & 4th dimensional interaction & the Flatland thing...Brilliant!!



Have you seen "Flatland - The Movie"? (I was able to download a torrent file of it)
It's an animation based on Sagan's Flatland theory.
It's kind of cutesy, but all in all a pretty great representation of Sagan's idea put into a storyline to help explain it a bit easier.


Enjoy!
WS