PREFACE

I feel I have to write this report so that other people don´t make the same mistake, or at least are prepared to deal with it.

ROA

Changa or a very basic joint made with frebase DMT and grinded mix of plants (caapi vine and leaf, passiflora incarnata, a little blue lotus). No enhanced MAOI, just the plant and crystals.

INTRODUCTION

Me and a couple of friends that have extensive experience in the use of DMT, were having a ceremony with a fourth guy, a childhood friend from across the ocean.
I´ll go into the details of how much we took later, this ceremony was unlike any other, this was the first time we´ve seen anything like this.

THE CRISIS

The new guy started smashing and breaking things, we try to hold him and he started kicking (fortunately he wasn´t punching). He also tried to run away to the street.

He had to be put down (like tackled or a double leg take down) several times, and then hold on the floor like the police would do… (luckily, the place was like a gym with mats on the floor and walls, and we were educated on basic martial arts, the guy was not hurt, had it taken place in a mountain with rocky ground, it would have been terrible).

He was insulting us really loud and telling us to shut up. He would also play it nice, pretending he was going to hi fi, and then kick you in the belly like a total douche… we were very patient and didn´t hurt him back, but it wasn´t easy. They guy was really tall, big and in good shape.
He took his pants off once… completely naked, we asked him to put it back and luckily he did (he went full Bronson on us…).

HIPOTESIS

This crisis extended over a period of 2-3 hours. Which is mind bloggling, considering the effects of the changa we were smoking could never exceed that (15min at peak, 45 to come down).
So, it´s now that by giving my call on what happened to him, I might annoy some of the people who think everything is neurochemistry (testable, reproducible, and falsifiable), I think it was some sort of possession, and I say this coming from my personal experience with DMT being possessed by a warrior spirit or some weird entity talking a funny language.

One important observation was a constant shaking in his belly, which was independent of breathing. He had like super-fast spasms.
He did mention after the first trip, that he had seen some aliens… and they put him on BBQ or something. I asked him if they´ve done surgery on him and he confirmed. I think they might have unblocked some of his chakras… who knows.


COMING DOWN

After a few hours, we would sit near him and talk him to calm down. We also tried blowing some tobacco and shaking some leaves. Later, I would sit close to him and perform a calm, long and loud breathing, so he could imitate mine, and ask him to control his breath, make it longer and tried to lower the heart beats. He is a experienced yogi, so he would sit in one of those cross legged positions and try to breath.
Finally, we started noticing those spasms in his belly had stop, and he seemed to be fine.
Later he seemed to remember, next day he was confused and embarrassed.

HOW MUCH WE TOOK – mixed with cannabis?

For these ceremonies we tend to prepare a changa joint for each person, containing slightly more than 200 mg of free base DMT. Burning it in a joint is not as effective as vaporizing it, it has its pros and cons… it´s easier to serve for multiple people doing it several times.
That 200mg joint can give you between 4-6 breakthroughs, depending on the person and the smoking technique.
We had taken one joint each that night, it had been awesome (even for the new guy), and decided to continue (should have call it a night and return home while we had some chips in the pocket).
While we took a break to prepare some more, the crisis guy and other smoke some cannabis.
I´m not sure if that was what made him some crazy for such an extended period of time. Anyway, even before that the was a moment when he started smashing things, but not as bad as later, he was extremely sensible from the beginning.

CONCLUSION

What do you think?

Did it happen to you before?

Having a guy going berserk for 3 hours, almost running out to the street.
I´ve heard reports such as this under high doses of lsd or shrooms, used most of the times with poor set and setting.
I didn´t know this could happen with DMT, mainly cause DMT doesn´t last that long (depending on your ROA).

This is one of the reasons I am still hesitant on continuing with the molecule.

I have a gut feeling that regular consuming of it can attract some attention from the other side. And this attention can be from different kinds of energies/entities. While on DMT, I 100% believe that everything can happen with you if you thread into wrong waters, including physical outcomes.
The experience itself is so hyper-real, so why not? You really should be ready to die every time you take it, it's no joke. Ego death, is just fancy word for death, only reversible in case of psychedelics. And while your body is vacant, with soul wandering elsewhere, some hyperspace hooligans can make use of it, because why not? Especially with mind->body bonds loosened by psychedelics.

So I am not sure yet if I am ready to deal with all that comes with it. I like when it's just a beautiful alien meet'n'greet, but you don't know 100% what awaits you.

This.


I've had the stomach/abs trembling. I think its cause thats where the dmt smoke ends at, and it 'irritates' those inner muscles/tissue. Its pretty gnarly. Only one who knows what happened to your friend is your friend.

You were irresponsible to give that to a completely new person in that amount.

I'm sure you'd prefer to blame it on possession or some other reason that isn't you and your friends making a very dangerous judgement assumption that bit you in the ass, but it was your fault for putting everyone in that position in the first place-- DMT is not a public experience for a new person, and you are lucky you and the others aren't in jail.

Very irresponsible.

And it's telling that you indicate no kind of awareness of culpability for the situation that you created in your post-- which is the root cause.

2-3 hours?!? That is insane. You said he's an experienced yogi. Maybe he already was opened up and didn't have any mental barriers protecting him. The fact that it lasted 2-3 hours means this could not have been solely due to the drug itself. I hope hes okay and is able to reflect on it now.

Those additional herbs may have contributed to extending the duration. And perhaps the guy was particularly adept at smoking joints.

I have seen similar case of "possession" on changa.
We were two of us, smoked some cannabis and after a while also a dose of changa.

He became totally weird, it seemed that he is an another person and started to be aggressive towards me, repeatedly blaming me that I have ruined his experience by switching music off, while music was still playing.

These accussation were not that critical, but overall feeling of his behaviour was quite diabolic, I was really afraid. It was totally scary.

But it lasted only during effects of the substances, so after few minutes it was gone and he came back. Few weeks after he said that it had possitive effect on his life.

I for another would never again mix cannabis with spice, which I'd say leads to a path that's quite unpleasant IMO. And for a newb to do even just a 200mg joint might be pushing the envelope already. Sometimes it's difficult to see from an experienced psychonaut just how challenging it is for a newb to take something never experience before. While this does seem like 3 hours of mess, but at least you all got out of this with just bruises and broken pieces. Appreciate the share though cuz that'd really help others to be more mindful about introducing.

I don´t think it was the herbs on the changa: passiflora incarnata is a mild one, not as strong as caapi. The blue lilly content is really low. Furthermore, I´ve tried this combination multiple times before, even in the case of enhaced leax changa x10, the effect won´t last so much.

I think it was the cannabis, that´s the only substance which effects could last for 2-3 hours.

Now that I am mentally going through that night, they told me this guy is a regular marijuana smoker... maybe he had smoke before the ceremony.
Some people can´t bear an entire day without smoking weed, in my opinion, is not the highest vibration possible.
Also, he did smoked cannabis in between the changa, he was upstairs and I didn´t saw him.

From now on, I´ll make sure unexperienced people don´t mix DMT with cannabis.

Thanks for your words.

This made me think a lot, personally I watch my diet before a ceremony. But some of my friends might approach DMT as in party mode... after eating a pizza with coca-cola, having drink some alcohol or smoked some weed (or plannig ot getting wasted after the DMT, which I don´t find compatible).
If you asked them if they have taken anything, sometimes they lie to you, they think there´s nothing to worry about...

About the 200mg joint, that can provide you between 4-6 breakthrougs (stoping 20-45 mins in between), it was not taken all at once. And they guy in particular wasn´t pushed at all... he was pushing us to continue. Which with DMT is generally a good sign. If your last trip wasn´t amazing, you don´t feel like going for another round.

What do you mean with "a public experience"?, like... people should do it alone for the first time?

This sounds a little bit judgemental.
Regarding not taken responsability, all I can say is that lessons were learnt, and now we are taking additional precautions, specially asking not to do cannabis before or during a ceremony.
Also, that particular night I kind of received a message that we had carried out the containment as best/gracefully as we could. It could have ended badly... the type of trip a guy walks on the street and people end up calling five-O and an ambulance.
They guy had grabbed a sledgehammer (which he threw to the floor luckily)... most people would have let him run loose... he was treated kindly, believe me, we are abled body people and didn´t raise a finger on him.
Had it been a regular bunch, no way they could have stoped him or helped him.
He said later that my words and breathing was helping him control it.
I´m not a chaman but I did my best, I´ve seen chamans performing exorcism during ayahuasca ceremonies, people behaving like demons, this guy wasn´t so bad, he just wanted to run away.
You might not believe in possesion, that´s OK, but I wouldn´t discard it.

It's more clear to me now and I don't feel anyone in particular is to be blamed because all parties involved are willing participants as you described. Of course then you're taking some risks by including people who might not tell you the whole truth what they've been taking.

With my limited experience, I did see once a new participant in a ceremony went out of control (but in a non-violent way) and started clapping and yelling to everyone in the circle, though I'll have to say in a non-aggressive way even though it's in-your-face sort of. I feel in these cases they've already been carrying that dormant energy or connection within them for a while. It's just that the psychedelics allow these energy/connection to manifest when the ego is no longer suppressing. This is just my guess.

It's good to read that you have taken lessons from this-- that's the best outcome.

It is judgemental insofar as reading that this was an avoidable situation, which you have agreed to.

By public, I meant in a group of many people-- often in extreme psychedelic states the presence of many people amplifies discomfort and the sense of defense that people have-- this is why I am of the belief that it is far better to experience these types of things at first either alone or with a single companion so as not to overwhelm the senses with the "crowd microscope" feeling.

Finally, after decades of experience, I've seen so many times that cannabis is one of the single most incompatible drugs to couple with psychedelics-- second only to alcohol. That's a great thing for everyone to learn-- as it compounds the disorientation and tension dramatically. I usually stop reading trip reports if I see that cannabis was included, as there's no comparison to the effects with a clean mind-- I think cannabis is one of the least useful plants when it comes to life in general, though I am sure that is an unpopular opinion.

Still, I'm glad you posted your report-- it is a good thing to show how freaky some people can become if proper set and setting are not honored. I want to make clear that I don't think you or your friends are bad people-- just that these kind of mistakes in planning are always contributors to negative experiences as you pointed out-- if your friend had gone a little further you could have all been arrested or worse-- this is the reason I'm unabashedly critical in voicing disapproval of these elements, because they endanger our whole community when brought to the attention of the "authorities". I hope you understand where I'm coming from-- harm reduction for future young people that might read these posts and think that it was just some thing that happened as opposed to a sequence of avoidable mistakes that should be avoided by others.