Hello and thanks for stopping by.

I have noticed the belief that human beings are the exact same as god and therefore there is not actually an "external God" that exists is a popular one among people who use psychedelics for spiritual purposes.

I have alot of trouble conceptualiing this idea because of my own expereinces with what I would percieve to be divinity. While I understand and deeply emathize with the idea that "all is one and one is all" and I realize that I am interconnected with all living beings. I do not in any way construde this to mean that I myself created the universe although I am aware that humans have powerful reality creating abilities.

The idea that I am God may be true in a sense, however I humble myself and realize that although I may be created in God's image I am far from resembling him in actual reality.
For me to proclaim that I am God in every sense of the word seems somewhat disrespectful to the original God that alows me to exist at all. I see nothing wrong with giving credit where credit is due and if some super being created the universe he/she/it deserves credit for the action and I also strongly feel that being deserves my sincere gratitude. I am not going to be grateful to myself, that seems rather selfish..


I personally believe one of the points of existence is to strive to become more like the creator being who is perfect. The idea that humans are God and therefore no external god exists seems rather egotistical in my opinion. As if we created ourselves. It seems to me like just an attempt to defy the idea that we are beings dependant upon a more powerful creator being. We may be Gods ourselves but we are "little Gods" like infants that need a proper Guardian to oversee our delicate development.

So this thread is not to debate about whether there IS a Creator Being or not I can plainly see that there is one..

I sort of just wanted to share my veiw on the issue, comments are welcome...

Thanks-

Elijah-

We are just energy. we fluctuate all over the place, who's to decide what's good or bad, that's questionable!!!...> we are simply energy expressed through the human being format... i think when we " allow ", THE FLOW, IT'S LIKELY TO BE divine or godly, but when we resist it's likely to be contrary. really, life is simple in the flow, trouble is life thesedays is mostly against the natural flow, and that's when we need to read the HOPI PROPHESIES!!!..

A novel realm of absolute potential that sprung forth all the polarities that constitute existence (life). At our most fundamental level I tend to think that we're directly linked with this absolute realm. Just not US though, as everything else is also... Permeating everything in known existence.

This is an interesting take on the subject. Recently, I have been struggling with this duality of we are God's and the idea of an ultimate creator. After my most recent pharma journey, my whole world has been shaken up and put into a new perspective.

I believe I had the Godhead moment. As I went deeper and deeper I found myself filled with an uncontrollable joy and laughter, then everything faded into white, pure, supreme bliss. At this point it all clicked together and there was a snap as I was put in touch with that God or me. It left me with a feeling like none other and I have been on fire since. I feel like I have been refueled and recharged. It's been weeks and I still feel like I am just brimming with it (whatever it is). Through in my beliefs of souls and reincarnation and it all seems to make sense...

I shall stop my rambling for now and save it for an actual trip report, but thanks for bringing up the subject, as it's been heavily on my mind.

I view god as not being a single being or entity, but a single, all knowing and collective consciousness that is contributed to by our individual experiences, It seems to me that experience is more important than actual knowledge of the workings, because everything is reverberating through an infinite number of dimensions or parallel universes, time ultimately does not exist, and death is nothing but a concept. time is only a way to percieve things through this vessel we call a body that encompasses the piece of god that is your individual conscious workings for the duration of the life of this vessel and the eventual "death" and decomposition of this vessel than ends your physical ability to alter this world.


Of course all of this is just my current view on things. I think alot of people that are into the entheogenic experience come to the same conclusions due to similar trips, and this community helps to make me feel as if my views are more validated by these findings. My view changes a little bit with every dmt trip.


I hope I helped put it into perspective a bit more clearly, of course, my belief is not necessarily anyone else's belief.


I love you.

Im just gonna borrow that one for a while. You've really captured the essence of what I have been feeling. Thanks parallelwhispers.

I'm gonna play your game for the time of this thread ( I mean, accepting the idea of "God" ).

You see, you are criticizing the idea that "we" are "God", from an ego driven perspective. It looks like you take this idea as if some people believed that humans created the universe.

This is not the case. The Idea that "we" are God, doesn't mean that humans created reality. Quite the contrary, actually.

What it means, is that God is reality, and that human are merely a fraction of God's being. This means that if we, as humans, allow the illusion of the ego to fall appart, we can return to our true nature, wich is godhood.

God is an omnipresent, omniscient being. Our egos tends to make us feel like distincts entities, wich is true in a sense, but only superficial in reality.

I'm surprised you posted this Eliyahu because you seemed so sure about "Yeshua"??

I guess there are many views on humans being god. One view is that god created humans so that he could work through them and express himself in a physical manner whilst still being a spiritual being?? It's a view that relates to me.

I mean i think everything that exists does so for a reason, and it's this WHOLE that is in effect god, of which we are a part of, god of course being the universal energy which is all that really exists i suppose; but at the same time everything is god.

The idea that we should try to act like god or whatever sounds like something out of a bible or similar guilt trip stuff. I think we should simply be ourselves and life will naturally manage itself. The problem i have with life thesedays is that i think we are not living in line with natural laws, but are being forced into ways governed by egotistical leaders who place the importance of money over caring for the world that we live on. It's because of this that there are so many people asking about god and this stuff, because society removes our connection with natural living and natural laws entirely.

IMO, Being GOD means that we as humans keep ourselves clean and pure from negative and evil influences like greed, etc. This way we can work according to happy vibes which is the natural direction of lifeforce and godliness... If we can allow ourselves to be led by these positive vibes, then we are doing good, and doing good is what we are here for.

YES, we are god, every single one of us being a different expression of God, but WE ARE ONE! and every grain of sand, every fly, every bit of dust... it's all part of the divine plan which is this adventure called LIFE!

Ez, I'm glad you liked my explanation, But also realize that my interpretation is still very vague.
I've recently found the chat section, I don't know how I missed it for so long.
I forsee me spending several hours there if you wish to chat it up.

I love you.

My realizations that I am God have come in two different forms:

1. We are all reflections of God occurring at different places and times; We cannot see how we are connected because our perception of reality is a mere cross-section of the infinite and eternal being and the connection exists in lower or higher dimensions. Another way of thinking of this is that we all believe that we exist at different times. From an eternalist point of view, I as a self exists in many times at once and, indeed I seem to have been a different person at each time (or one person constantly changing). So what if other people are just manifestations of "me" at different places... We are all manifestations of the same consciousness at different places and times.

2. Solipsism: Nothing actually exists outside my own mind: I am all that exists: I am "God"/the master of my universe. I consider this to be true even without solipsism because the meaning of anything we perceive comes from within out own mind. There is no good or bad, or right or wrong, or hot or cold, etc etc, except that which the mind adds to reality. Basically, the most important and meaningful aspects of my perceptions originate from within my own mind, and I can't get away from the fact that objective reality has no meaning in and of itself.

I am the only one who bears witness to my own consciousness. Consciousness is completely subjective. For this reason, I don't find it difficult to imagine that there is some subjective reference point from which things like trees and rocks are conscious, and this is how I extend the revelation of (1) to inanimate objects.

Well I completely agree with you. The "I" that you are referring to is your ego and it is certainly separate from "God". In fact that part of you will certainly cease to exist when you die. Enjoy it while you can!

However, I see no reason to assume that everything came from something. It doesn't even make logical sense. If everything came from something, then what exactly was this something?

Let's put this another way. Can you show me an effect without a cause? The Buddhist talk of dependent origination. Everything arises from some prior event. Karma. Thus since they could find nothing that was without cause they made the only logical assumption that they could. There was no first cause. How would it have come to be? Sure you could invoke the argument of God, but why? What is the evidence or proof to invoke this argument?

I think as long as humans continue to search we will be able to look further and further back into time, but we will never find the first cause. Sure for a while we had the big bang theory, but now we already have many world theories, parallel universes and M-theory to potentially describe a host of events prior to the bug bang. It won't stop. I believe the universe is the play ground of conscious awareness. Kinda like a world map on a video game that is continuously created as you explore. The universe will never cease to expand for humans...and if it does it will only be because we have discovered other planes of reality that are essentially unlimited in their vastness as well.

So back to the concept of an external God. I don't deny that it's possible, but I can't see any logical argument that suggests this God is a being separate from the rest of creation. Mind you I consider "creation" to be all of it. The material realms and the spiritual. If he was separate then what or where would he exist and why would that not also be part of creation?

It would always come down to the who created God argument.

Peace

I'm loving this thread. As I've mentioned earlier these thoughts have really been bouncing around in my head.
Hixidiom: both of your reasoning's towards your realization that you are God are great examples of what I have experienced and only seem to solidify my feelings on this issue.

I do feel that it would be naive to assume that "I" or the self is the creator.



I think you nailed it right here. Thanks you.

christian wrote:



I am still quite sure of Yeshua as I have communicated with him face to face countless times thanks to psychedelics. He has shown me that he is a living being that exists on an eternal basis. I understand that Yeshua represents the ultimate potential of human conciousness meaning that any living human is capable of literally becoming like Yeshua.
HOWEVER..

I know of no other humans that have existed on this planet that have achieved the level of enlightenment that Yeshua was able to attain during his time on Earth, while one could argue that Budddha, Krishana etc. are similar figures, in my opinion Yeshua is the only true Messiah. (The one who is capable of saving all.) While all of us are capable of achieving a buddha like or christ like awareness I do not take this to mean that there is more than one possible messiah.

Even Christ himself identied himeself not as God but as the son of God clearly alluding to a more powerful figure, his father.

---

I definitely appriciate everyones input on the issue. I feel like my view has been shaped by the experiences I have had with psychedelics. Although I recognize my oneness with God I prsonally believe it is important to be Grateful to the Creator being. I see nothing wrong with gratitude to whoever is responsible for my existence.

Based on what I have witnessed, I understand the Creator of the universe to be a single and extremely technilogically advanced entity. The idea that there is one creator entity is comparable to how there only needs to be one sun in a solar system to provide illumination for a planet that suports life.

Acording to what I have learned from tripping, one super tech being created the entire mulitverse and also created "angels". These angels or Elohim are a super advanced race of ultra tech beings or a type 3 civilization that in turn created the world we know as well as us.

According to the original hebrew torah heaven and Earth was created not by GOD but by God's.
(Elohim is plural)..

So this is just my view based on yars of tripping, obviously I could also be just plain bonkers by now...


Peace

In my favorite model, God exists only as a possibility which "strives" to become manifest in and through us. When we have the God-moment in a psychedelic experience, then God actually manifests in our mind, but only for the duration of the trip. The only way I can understand this is to assume that God is somehow encoded in our DNA, our CNS is wired to unpack this singular idea with all its ramifications, and psychedelics provide a space where this process can crystallize. We could also say that psychedelics are time machines which help us see into our future. The visions are evolutionary agents, setting up mind patterns, behavior and choices which are supportive of the evolutionary goal. The ultimate purpose would be to download God into reality.

But, aren't you supposed to find Your own personal enlightenment, Eliyahu ....>?

I have always been under the impression that the use of the term Elohim ,as a plural, is akin to the use by personages of some standing, such as Royals, of "We" when referring to themselves.

Interesting to see the word elohim, I'd almost forgotten about blatvatsky's 'Doctrine', into which I'd made a good sized dent in previous boredom.
Almost wish I had it now to peak through, at all the insanely eruditic terms, exoteric scripture and pre-sumerian markings. Something I find irresistible about a book that is premised by the assertion that for the uninitiated it can be read only by intuition alone. Makes the imagination fly, and the time too, I suppose.

I have no use for the word 'God'.

I think archaic systems of thinking have been outmoded, biologically. But of course there are set-backs and a kind of generalized, mandatory lag in how these systems evolve collectively through human relation, i.e culture and means of activity. There are as many ways to connecting with the beauty in a human body as there are bodies, and old words decay and crumble into profane mixtures and newer, still more murderously clever paradoxes.

"Poetry is born of insecurity: wandering Jews, quaking Japanese; by living on a rug that jesting nature is ever ready to pull out from under them they've got into the habit of moving about in a world of appearances: fragile, fleeting, revocable, of trains that fly from planet to planet, of samurai fighting in an immutable past. That's called 'the impermanence of things.'
I did it all. All the way to the evening shows for adults—so called. The same hypocrisy as in the comic strips, but it's a coded hypocrisy. Censorship is not the mutilation of the show, it is the show. The code is the message. It points to the absolute by hiding it. That's what religions have always done."

My view on the subject, at least the small parts of it I can imagine with language, has been very nearly summed by one of my favorite authors in an interview I've listened to just recently. I'll embed it, for any other possible henry miller readers.



To put it very plain, I feel like there are images and invocations of the throat, words man uses on his own nervous system which to balance to branch and move about more freely — and grow.

Hmm, and plainer still.. that 'God', this 'God', is an insane animal, frolicking in make-believe. Nothing more horrific, joyous, silly and at once absolutely beautiful.

OK, I'll bite. This is an element of many variations of theism... but the idea that humans are co-equal, or one with with, G*d does not necessarily lead one to the idea that there is no external divinity.

Any finite being trying to conceptualize the infinite will ultimately fail... no matter how huge and mind-boggling one's concept or perception can become, infinity is (by definition) bigger.

You seem to be conflating a number of ideas that don't necessarily have to go together. It is quite possible to conceive that all is one and interconnected without imagining that your egoic mind created anything. It is also possible to acknowledge the reality creating abilities of humanity (look at dreaming) with or without imagining that we had anything to do with the seemingly consensual reality we appear to be sharing.

Such ideas as humility, respect, gratefulness and more are awfully petty for any omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent being... be it the one true G*d or some lesser divinity on the way up the totem pole.

I can't really imagine even some ETs a few thousand years more evolved than us needing our humility, respect or thankfulness. After all, how many of us expect grovelling and obeisance from wild animals when we protect them from poaching or put them on the endangered species list?

Do the sub-species of dogs that we created in our breeding programs need to be indebted to us for their existence? The concept of St. Bernard bringing us schnapps when we are freezing and lost in the alps out of some sense of obligation to us seems ridiculous. They are raised to consider us part of their familiy and have love for us... this "guilt trip" is not only uncalled for, but not something any of us would enjoy particularly. How much more so for a divine being?

Any god that acts jealous or demands our slavish obeisance seems more demonic to me than divine. This is why many Gnostics find much of the references to G*d in the Bible to be describing archons or some mad demiurge.

I agree with the first and last sentences here, and have addressed the middle bit already. You may gravitate towards some variations on the concept that conceive of humanity as the "sons of G*d" where we must overcome our illusory and delusional flight away from G*d to return to our inheritance (all that is, or ever could be) like the prodigal son. In some of these variations, we only need to recognize our innate perfection as we were created perfect... in others, we are infant divinities who must learn and grow up to become worthy of our pedigree.

If you are not familiar with A Course In Miracles... you should go out and find yourself a copy. The text, workbook, and the manual are all right up your alley. In fact, anyone interested in a powerful, modern take on this exact type of concept of deity should give this book a read. It speaks most to people who are not put off by Christian terminology and imagery, as it purports to be a modern message to humanity from Yeshua ben Yoseph himself... channeled through an atheist psychologist no less. As such, it tends to alienate and piss off most people on both sides of the fence who might otherwise have dug the actual message.

The basic premise is that we are G*d's children and still safe and perfect in his heavenly, eternal realm... but we chose to create this world of time, duality, imperfection and pain for ourselves in some kind of immature expression of our divine creative abilities and some rebelliousness against eternal peace. Thus, we did create this world, and G*d had nothing to do with it except getting out of our way and allowing us the freedom to dream of pain and suffering as long as we feel the need to do so. In the end, there is no guilt or sin because nothing here actually ever happened in "reality" and we will eventually (sooner or later) wake up from this nightmare we have generated out of our fear of G*d and the ego we designed to mask our real selves will fall away as we transcend this utterly fake world. Furthermore, it says we are all fragments of a single Son of G*d who is schizophrenic at the moment... and that we all need to wake up for any of us to truly transcend this dream theater.

Heady stuff, no doubt. But you don't have to accept any of it in order to find useful tools and ideas in this book. It is a fascinating read irrespective of if you swallow any of it... certainly more useful than the Bible (sorry to those who find this blasphemous), and contains an awful lot of very useful tools in deprogramming your mind. In fact, the book calls itself a mind training to put you in a position to be your own savior... as well as a miracle working savior of the world itself.

I can't tell if this is or is not what Hyperspace Fool was saying, but I was just thinking that there's no reason that I should be humble that does not also apply to God. If God exists as you, Eliyahu, believe him to exist, then I think we would both find it hard to imagine him thinking to himself such things as: "Shoot, there's no way that I could be God." I read a wonderful article entitled "Drugs and Jewish Spirituality" in which the author expressed my general sentiment which is that God, and our relationship with God, can be experienced in so many deeply mystical ways that it is silly for us to cling to this "God as father" model which has been forced down our throat for so many years. God can be anything or everything. It's an idea too abstract to be contained in the sober mind and, when it is finally communicated from one person to another, it has to crystallize into a concrete form that should not be taken literally. My belief is that all sacred texts' reference to the nature of God should be considered beating around the bush at best.

The times when I've realized that I am God have also been accompanied by the realization that such an idea spits in the face of all that I, as a finite being, have considered to be virtuous in the past. Thus is the irony of the situation. For example, to an all-encompassing God, all love is self-love in one form or another. We can't expect the psychology of a unitary consciousness to be the same as ours because simple concepts such as selflessness fall apart at that level of consciousness.

As individual people, we are constantly focussed outward. The realization that you are this universal consciousness is simply the realization that all outward-pointing perceptual arrows end up pointing inward at the soul. The self is everywhere, and everything you experience is a part of you and vice versa. The soul contains the essence of all things. I believe that this is something that has been said uncountable times by mystics and philosophers in every culture for thousands of years, and it is (IMO) the essence of what most psychonauts are referring to when they say "I am God", or whatever.

Depending on your definition of god; yes. Our cells are to our body as we are to god, part and parcel... Energy forms that can be scientifically categorized as 'seperate" but which are essentially an indivisable part of the same whole.

Pantheism has an interesting definition which I tend to align with.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pantheism/

I feel we are god in the sense that we are all constant, interconnected co-creators; and also the creation... that really we have no choice but co-creation at all times. What we do have is some degree of choice as to how we move the rudders or adjust the sails. The words/ideas we share and any actions we take are the flapping of butterfly wings, stirring/adjusting the universal winds.

Seems to me we all weave our thread into the fabric of the universe; together with all of creation. The universe is just that, one song, one note: "the music of the spheres" is our co-creation; the chorus we add our voice to, thus modulating the tone and changing the physical structure of existence; cymatics.



Blessings.