Some people here are mad at the guy, who is dead. Because somehow you think it is his fault the plant will be banned? Where's the logic in that? His fault? Or the media and agenda pushers? He might be the tool they use, okay, but it's the fault of media and state and the refusal for our leaders to come out and be open about the life changing power of psychedelics. Where's the guy that got DMT banned?

This guy is gone, and it could have likely been many of us during our experimental phases (not just with drugs, cars, girls, etc). I just don't think it's right to pin blame on him for being stupid. Take it up with your representatives, community council, teachers, don't just bitch about some dude who killed himself, because he did it with a tool you are in favor of.

Oh, and humans are fucking stupid. What to do?

edit: eh, on 2nd thought, if you, willingly or unwillingly, make yourself a tool to such powers, yes, you deserve some derision, here or not.

Okay, lets compose ourselves for a second and show the respect and compassion anyone of us would equally deserve as well....

I believe there is a SHE that is to occur within the next few hours for some of us on the east coast as well as everywhere soon. Whoever participates in this SHE no matter how "religious" you are in any way... or maybe you just want to show your compassion. Let those who partake send our prayers or messages of love to Ryan Santanna. Also let us move forward to understand the new cycle of life we are about to begin.

Peace!

Diane Linkletter
Born October 31, 1948(1948-10-31)
Los Angeles County, California, U.S.
Died October 4, 1969(1969-10-04) (aged 20)
West Hollywood, California, U.S.

Diane Linkletter (October 31, 1948 – October 4, 1969) was the daughter and youngest child of popular American media personality Art Linkletter, and his wife Lois Foerster. She was only 20 years old when she committed suicide in 1969.


Biography Not widely known to the public before she died in 1969, 20-year-old Diane Linkletter jumped out of a window of her high-rise apartment to her death in West Hollywood, California. Her death was widely reported in the media at the time, and her father blamed her death on LSD. Shortly thereafter, Art Linkletter became a prominent anti-drug campaigner.[1]

However, there is no proof that Linkletter took LSD on the day she died. Evidence suggests that she was a despondent woman and that her death was a suicide rather than a drug-related accident, though some have proposed her death may have been a murder. Her boyfriend at the time, Edward Durston, was present in Linkletter's apartment when she supposedly plunged to her death; 15 years later, Durston was also accompanying actress Carol Wayne during her fateful trip to Mexico—during the trip, Wayne was found dead in a shallow bay after a heated argument with Durston. Following Linkletter's death, an investigation was conducted by the Los Angeles Coroner's Office; it was determined that Linkletter died from "multiple traumatic injuries," apparently sustained from the fall, and that she had no drugs in her system at the time of her death.[1]

Diane Linkletter had led a troubled life before any alleged involvement with drugs. In 1965, at the age of 17, she eloped, and her father used his influence to get the marriage annulled.[2]

Bobby Darin wrote and released a single titled "Baby May" in 1969. "The song was inspired by the suicide death of Art Linkletter's daughter. In the record's publicity material Darin said he felt Linkletter could have assumed more responsibility, and the lyric included the line 'Baby May had to pass away to hear her Daddy say I was wrong'."[6]

Very well said. Ryan, and his family, will be in my thoughts for many days to come.

This is a heavy thread. Please forgive me for bringing up Diane Linkletter. After watching the following one minute commercial, you can get an idea why she jumped out the window. BTW, you can tell by looking at her that she liked to party.
http://www.youtube.com/w...YlGg&feature=related

OK. End of levity. Back to serious discussion.

Here is a local ABC news report about it (showing pictures of the guy). Anyone living in New York should start stocking up. NYC could make it illegal within the city.
http://abclocal.go.com/w...rss-wabc-article-8001683

What about alcohol deaths violence car crashes, high emotion suicides self destruction families ruined and just about every bad thing and deaths deaths deaths PILES of deaths attributed with it and idiots?

Oh who cares. We have heard the story a thousand times and gripe about the same corrupt nonsense, I'm sick of saying it's not going to change in my lifetime.

If this is indeed true, then we either feel for him and those involved or do a bill hicks and call him an idiot.

I can't really say having never experienced a strong salvia trip. I don't know what it's really like.

you make a very good point
Alcohol legal kills many and basically gets swept under the rug.
Salvia Legal someone dies Just another reason to make the plant illegal.
I mean my prayers go out to the kid, he either was using the substance improperly and negligent, or he had never heard of the substance and tried it, and tried too much, i have heard of many people dosing on salvia and jumping off of things with the thought that they can fly or were flying.

Will someone please ban tall buildings... think of the children!

Yeah, but we might be capable of both also. I don't know if it's true or not but I've always heard that firefighters and homicide detectives often develop a strong sense of irony and humor in response to their work next to death.

With any sense of responsibility salvia packagers should immediately place an advisory for thorough research and/or a sitter while still inexperienced with the powerful effects of this drug. It's a true shame for the man's family to have to associate his death with a hallucinogen.

When I had my own entheogen site a few years back, with every order of Salvia, plain leaf or extract, I sent a three page "guide" with it. Stressing the point of having a sitter, set and setting, not to operate machinery, etc. I also put a link to sagewisdom in there. I didn't want to be responsible for selling someone some Salvia and having them jump off a building or get into a car accident and kill themselves or innocent people. That was actually part of it, in the end, that made me shut down the site. I felt too much like a drug dealer, with all these people fiending for Kratom. Asking me if I was going to stock the "spice" blends or other blends sprayed with synthetic cannabinoids.

Dioxippus : Thats the irony of it. If one supplies these substances to the public -powerful psychoactive agents which sometimes their power may even lie in their subtlety leading to the "familiarity that breeds contempt"- then he/she better be ethical and considerate about it. On the other hand if one is ethical and considerate about it he/she may stumble onto qualms and question what he/she does and stop doing it. "Can i verify that those agents go to people that have the capacity to responsibly handle them? I may include an encyclopedia in DVD form with them but...i cant be sure". "What should i do about trends, should i stock the latest fad because its popular and its going to sell like its hot? And if i do, wouldnt riding the fad lead me to some cognitive dissonance about who i empower with these agents VS who have the capacity?". Sometimes the ones that can "deal" with those internal questions either do not have them from the start so no problem, or they find a justification that makes them feel better. But is this a good sign, will such a mentality creep into product quality/quantity also? Of course there are also good and ethical vendors out there, but for many its easier to follow the fad because its makes them good money -plus they are sitting on a heap of psychoactives they propably love themselves!

To others : Personally i cannot know what happened to the man that jumped/fell off the balcony. For me its "guesstimations" based what the newspapers published. It could also be a true accident, it could have been one of those moments that you might know all about "set and setting" , you might know heaps of information about a psychoactive agent (even be the point of reference for psych info in your real life circle) but still fuck up. Yes...Its one of those times that "you" (whoever) smoked salvia on the beach or on top of a pile of rocks that gave you good views -if you died there by falling or drowning you would have made headlines, you didnt so you say "all went good" and forget the potential lethality of the situation.Yes, its also one of those moments that even if you knew better you drove under the influence or "off baseline" but "nothing bad happened" so you didnt make the headlines.Yes, its one of those moments that in hindsight things could have gone southern than south while you where under the influence, but didnt so "everything is ok"- well, it takes only one time for it to be "less than ok", it takes one event to make headlines and start such a thread in the nexus. Fucking up is extremely easy even for the best! It goes hand in hand with being a human!

Apart from this i would love a society that would let you totally free. If i was a crazed dictator that imposed total freedom (banning only actions that would hurt third people) how many days would it be before people came threatening to burn me alive if i wouldnt issue laws that basically...protected them from their own selves? With freedom comes great responsibility, and a huge part of it is (wo)maning up and taking full responsibility for your actions even if they were idiotic mistakes. Of course its easier -and understandable up to a point especially for relatives experiencing untold grief (they are tripping in a way, arent they? the whole totalitarian state of emotion they are in.)- to blame an inanimate object or someone else instead of our own selves or the perpertrator that happened to be a loved one.

Yes, me being who I am, I am ethical and considerate to the last. I like to make people happy, and providing them with those herbs did so. But after a while, you see both sides of the coin, and it gets harder to ignore the people who aren't using it responsibly.

I agree with you. We're all human and we make mistakes. But it's the gathering of information, knowledge, which helps us make better decisions that minimize potentially fatal mistakes. Still, no matter what precautions we take, shit happens. Such is life.

sad news.

this reminds me of an incident some friends had a while back. several of us had many salvia experiences on 20-40x.

a new friend wanted to try some. ok, no prob. out comes the 20x. this dude freaked out. started making al kinds of weird noises, and sat up abruptly, eyes open. then he proceeded to jump to his feet, and run to the bathroom, and throw open the window and slam it shut several times. somehow he broke a towel rack, and jumped into the tub. we were all horrified, and dumbstruck at what to do. for a minute i thought he was faking, but then i remembered the power of salvia.

I am glad he didn't jump out the window! it was a second floor apt. over grass, but still.

moral of story: if you are as sitter, be prepared to restrain the person from self harm. and now i know better than to be around any salvia above earth level.--no balconies, no cliffs!

he said there was a train coming thru, filled with muppets/sesame st characters, and he had to jump on,(this is when he jumped into tub) as the rest of reality was falling out.

there is now a song written about the experience

I guess accidents can happen to anyone. Its not correct that I called him an idiot. Nobody knows what could happen at any given moment.

It definitely could have been prevented... but... that's just the way things happened. As someone said before, its not like if he wanted this to happen (all the media / drama / etc). Or at least we dont know what was really on his mind. This whole situation is just unfortunate.

I was mad when I made that post, but now I am a little cooler and I can more or less understand where his father is coming from.

Rest in peace R.S. and I hope his dad finds peace of mind someday.

...

Clouds, i can totaly understand you! There are many times i have "lashed out" calling someone in such situations an idiot because i felt -and i believe up to a point righteously so- that their actions harmed themselves but also harmed the freedom of others. After all its kind of ironic a person "friendly" towards those substanses becoming an excuse for more banning and yet more limiting laws on them: when you think that the opposition is close minded people on the subject, the most harm might come from the "affiliated" side! Being mad is certainly understandable both for you and for his father, if nothing else its a powerful feeling isnt it?

I think that those are two different but related events: one can feel sorry about his death but also feel irritated or angry about the consequences. What one can do? Well, the least one can do is take this as an example and not let himself/herself or the ones in his/hers immediate circle become the next posterboy for any kind of prohibition. This may sound a bit strict to some but consider it for a moment : every "psycoactive related" arrest/hospitalisation/problem is putting yet another one more dent in the image of psychoactives -starting with your close circle (significant other,friends,family). While we are humans and while noone consciously would love to get arrested/hospitalised/harmed in psychoactive related incidents, people do but for the most part they can be prevented. If one wants to change public opinion about them, then the most immediate sphere of influence is the people close to him/her and the uttmost example of psychoactive use is himself/herself. Do not expect even your close ones to be able to view psychoactives in a more favorable light if you yourself have presented practical examples of their "harmful qualities". One unfortunate/idiotic incident involving psychoactives can cancel out years of blazing, intelligent, well informed speeches on their possible benefits. Yup, its unfair but it happens....

It's always tragic when someone jumps to their death, and I feel for their family. I didn't want to say anything when I first heard of the story, but I had a strong feeling as soon as I read that the ex-girlfriend was involved, that the story of what happened was not accurate. According to this new article, the father does not believe at all that this was a drug induced suicide, and the father is calling for the incident to be further investigated, following inconsistencies with the ex-girlfriend's version of events. http://www.wpix.com/wpix...tal-jump,0,7551390.story

forgive me but i think its a little harsh to call a recently deceased person that died VERY tragically an idiot. his actions may have cost him his life but for all anyone knows here he could have been a genius and just made a very STUPID mistake. sorry but i just think thats a little harsh. what if his parents read this?

on that note please be responsible people
much love

Ditto Dreamwalker, Dioxipuss, Apoc and alladinsgrandpa,

This boy is a casualty in our collective quest for the unknown and the alchemy of mind expansion. His passing is a tragic loss to all of us in the psychonautical community, and for greater humanity at large. We really should all respectfully step back and observe our own thoughts for a moment. Are we not the lucky ones? We can find the balance in the storm of dissociation and inner chaos. And if called to face forces which defy our construct of 'reality', is it not but for Grace that we have come this far? I personally count my blessings. So we have no fear of flying and can ride the fine line which separates wisdom from insanity... unlike some of our more fragile family members.

When any of us fall, it is the burden we all share, as voyagers of consciousness. See my point? We are not islands, we are one. I have shed many tears for this lad and hope that he is able to find peace in whichever reality he now exists. I wish his spirit well and send him much love. More than anything, I feel for his family, for they can not fathom the reason for his death. In utter despair, they cannot know what he is experiencing or where he is now. Their pain must be beyond description. I have a strong faith he is able to find a greater understanding about his own existence, on the other side. Am I being naive to hope that many of you fine souls, brightly feathered Spirit Dancers, will gift your hearts as well? There's an old expression and however colloquial it may sounds, it rings as true today, as the day it was penned: "Have a heart."

I admit my first reaction to this story was anger due to the lack of responsibility. I do however recognize how lucky I am to still be here today with all the reckless acts I've committed in my life.

We are all only human and all make mistakes.