Great reports and talks. Very familiar.



Indeed. It is not insane to wonder about ones true nature, and the possibility that things may not be exactly as they seem. Not only that, but I think every person suspects, or a part of every person hopes, that at the point of death, the true nature, or a deeper nature of reality is revealed. Oddly, people are quick to use the term schizophrenic, or crazy to those who question reality, yet I feel deep down, a lot of people know that a deeper layer of reality is revealed at the point of death. Of course, we know many religions describe a belief in a meeting with God at death.

And why should that be so? Death is supposedly the destruction of your consciousness. The breaking of you. If schizophrenia is like a malfunctioning machine, death is the break of the machine. Why should any knowledge be revealed when your brain dies and you lose the ability to have knowledge as you know it? I think deep down almost everyone knows that the world as they see it isn't an objective reality, but a world that exists within the confines, limits, and individuality, that a brain provides. People wonder what's behind the veil? What is objective reality? What is beyond the limitations of mind centered reality? I suspect people know that when the brain breaks down, something else might be revealed. Only when the brain centered reality that people are used to starts breaking down, are they able to see something else.

I think psychedelics provide a temporary cut from ordinary reality as we are used to, and are given a glimpse of another level of existence. And incredibly, it is done without damage to the person. If anything, a powerful drug experience will let you know something that you can't deny. That is, you aren't really you. You as you know yourself only exist as long as your brain has the right set of hormones and neurotransmitters, etc. Mess with any of that and your entire experience will be altered, and there's nothing you can do about it. You are a composite, a complicated mechanical construction of layers of hormones and memories, thought patterns, and behavior patterns. Only, most people have forgotten that they're like a machine.... a survival machine. A lot of people are very sure of their opinions, yet there is one question that no one has answered, and science is no closer to answering now than it ever has been or ever will be. That question is, "who am I?". Who is the one who is experiencing this life? If you understand what I'm asking, that question blasts the mind. The mind has no answer. Perhaps it is that "non answer" that the person comes in contact with at death. Only when the mind breaks down is one able to see past it.

Anyway, I think a lot of people are really hard on themselves when it comes to judging whether they're insane or not. If they have a weird experience, or feel some kind of disconnection with reality as they know it, they feel they've gone insane and can never be the same. And they also think they're the only one who's experienced a break. You aren't. People feel others will judge. People feel that what they experience qualifies as psychotic. Relax. Just go on living life. Reality isn't what you thought it was, that's all. If you thought everyday consciousness was all there is, you were mistaken. Reality, that is to say, your experience of reality, is dependent upon whatever state you happen to be in. Not talking to you directly, Lavos, just talking. Maybe if more people talked about this kind of thing, then it wouldn't be so taboo for the average person to talk about it. Maybe people wouldn't get so freaked out, and assume psychosis when people start talking about the "illusory" nature of reality. And also, maybe the people who have experiened the illusory nature of reality will stop thinking that they're only ones, and stop thinking that they have some special secret message to give that no one else knows and people need to hear about.

Looking behind the veil of ordinary consciousness isn't for everyone. Most people probably want to feel like they've got a good grasp on things, why complicate everything with the experience that things are not as they appear? Some people don't deal with it well, I guess. I just want to let people know.... look, if you've experienced some kind of altered perception of the universe, you aren't necessarily insane. If you've felt like "nothing is real" that doesn't mean nothing is real... is just means what you thought of as absolute reality isn't absolute. Your perception of reality can be altered. It isn't psychotic, that's just fact. It can happen to anyone, and it will happen to everyone when they die.

Your reality when you are a newborn is a far cry from when you're 70. Go about your regular life, go to work, do your chores, enjoy your family and friends. As long as you can function, you're not going to be institutionalized. If you freak yourself out too much about your experiences, you're not helping yourself. Reality isn't what you thought, but it's still here. All of this is temporary. I don't know how to define the word, "real", so I don't know what to say about this reality being real, but know that it is temporary, it will end. Death will be a total break from all reality as you know it. I tend to think of "psychosis" or schizophrenia as a fairly constant state in which people cannot control their actions, lack self awareness, and lack the ability to function in the world. Just saying, don't think you've gone crazy just because you question reality, and have thoughts such as, "the world is illusion". Buddhism has been talking about such things for thousands of years. It's not schizophrenic, nor are drugs necessary to experience such thoughts. I remember one day many years ago, I was looking at a tree, and for no particular reason, it just hit me like lightning.... "I am that". It was like looking behind a veil. The spirit of creation is in all things, it is in me, and it is the same spirit in all things.

Hey, fantastic post apoc, got me thinking like crazy, damn you. I was going to sleep but had to reply real quick.

I used schizophrenic in the wrong context I believe. The idea of alternate realities mentioned, it's one pulled from way down in the abyss, imo, and one that is not easily mentioned in casual company. But you're right, we should feel free to share it more. Yeah, I experienced this, I felt the full wrench or saw the infinite beauty of departing from things and moving in ways that defy explanation.

I don't feel strange at all for my experience. I feel strong and glad for it indeed. If anything I've felt strange about myself for years. Identity issues and struggles with guilt and over-conscious and over-empathetic, and anyway. I got issues, but the deep insight I feel salvia provided, can never be taken away. Seriously, I love thinking of the trees as giant blood capillaries, giving life to everything around it. No one can take that knowledge from me, and I don't feel damaged for it. Haunted, maybe a little, but so what.



Yeah pretty much man, dead on. Everything shutting and closing out, and me in the middle. A clip where I wasn't quite sure if I got anything more than my head through the remaining glory of the white room and cartoons.

I smoked DMT in the woods once, everything got so still, and somewhere between thinking I saw a dog and thinking someone was coming up on me, I got the sensation of a tree falling, and death being like that, a giant tree closes the light and crushes you into oblivion.

Tsk, tsk, burningmouth, you should know about the hospital ranch

Cafeteria Lady A - We're almost out of Ranch, trucks won't be here til tomorrow!
Nurse - Just add water!

(or butter or milk you ol' bag of bones)

^ Excellent post, and very true.

I think that it's important to acknowledge that the reality we see in sober life is just a tiny little constrained parcel of the entirety of reality, and that we little monkey-men are probably incredibly near-sighted. BUT, it's also important to trust in what you DO know. If you start questioning the validity of that tiny parcel, then I think that is when psychosis begins, and your capability of handling sober life begins to dissolve.

Trust what you see, but know that you can't see much...

I'm just glad to be a part of it. And if the peacock and lion are proud, it is just the way it is. We communicate here to relate stories of the latest and greatest frontier, the infinite human mind.




Exactly. Get with it, groove this life, but understand there's a potential for something more.

This has become one of the greatest Salvia threads I've read/been a part of. Great post Apoc. And everyone. I wish that I could just read and talk about these things all day, and I didn't have any other responsibilities.

I have to agree that the content of this thread is outstanding.



That is one powerful paragraph. Lately, I've been thinking about the fact that we are basically 'wet' machines. Evolution has created the modern human being that has survived for hundreds of thousands if not millions of years. Evolution accomplished this by, among other things, forcing us to experience pain. Pain is a good motivation. It is also an immoral motivation, IMO.

Are humans just machines or are they spiritual beings that find themselves attached (or chained) to some complex bio organism? I'm getting to the point where I believe that we have been wrongly married to these damn, decaying bodies. We need to find a way to free ouselves from them. Sometimes when I'm peaking on salvia, I can feel my heart pumping. I think to myself, I have a fucking pump inside me, just like any other fucking machine. This fucking pump is keeping me locked up in the material, physical world.

Salvia shows some of us that there is something missing in this world in which we live. This world seems laughably, if not painfully, inadequate. There seems to be a more primordial world out there. I just wish that salvia reality would meet us half way. Salvia reality as the new UFO.

We ARE biological machines, and there is no such thing as free will.

So then the question becomes, why are we here at all? My latest answer (subject to change at any moment ) is that we exist so that our “higher selves” can experience what they are not. “They” (we) are eternal, immaterial beings. They have always existed, and always will.

Physicality, birth, life and death, pain, pleasure, are all things that are consequences of our existence in a physical form. These are things that only physical beings can experience. Our “higher selves”, our “spirits” or “souls” experience physicality through us.

I once had a DMT experience where I was outside of my body, but my physical body was nearby. It appeared in the “immaterial realm” as a hazy elongated blue orb. I was with other immaterial beings who I seemed to know. It became clear to me that most immaterial beings have never had the privilege of being embodied. Those around me were eager to be embodied, if only for a moment. They asked if they could enter my body, and I allowed them to do so.

It became immediately clear that they had never been in a body before! (A bit like letting a friend who doesn’t know how to drive get behind the wheel of your brand-new car.) I had to warn them to be careful – I told them that I need that “thing”. After a short while, I told them to get out, and they did. Seeing how eager they were to experience physicality and knowing how rare the opportunity is to experience it filled me with a sense of pride.

After the experience, I realized what a gift this life is. We are experiencing something that is very rare, something that most immaterial souls have yet to experience. As biological organisms, we seek out pleasure, we avoid pain. But sensation of all sorts is valuable to our “higher selves”.

Human beings as vessels, I can see that. Containers of a soul, a piece of God, or whatever you want to call it. A stitching in the infinite fabric, of cosmic awareness of itself. I can (somewhat clearly) see us as mere biological machines. Bound to a body, (did we somehow volunteer for this?) But we know better than to see it simply, for whatever the formulation behind the act, we still choose to grow and move where we want, of course, our wants and traits are just a representation. Maybe the more aware we are, the more aware of us spirits are? Maybe not at all.

Something lives through us, and we often call it our(s)elf . What is the ego in relation? Looming large in the field, but where from?

And if you think of it the way you put it, always forever some aware momentum etc etc, All histories and myth invented here on Earth would be small architecture, all knowledge of origins are up for examination.



That’s really interesting gibran. I’ve considered writing a short piece, about a spider that touches a human, and how absolutely excited it is about it. Basically the idea that a human is one of the highest forms here, akin to us touching a lion or an eagle perhaps, or rare cactus or the like? Thought it related. I can understand well what you mean by some 'spirits' excited the chance to live through us.

Sensation as value. In a way that makes complete sense. Of course most humans know this on a subconscious level. In dreams, on weekends, in work, we seek excitement of senses. People become weak when they lose track of their bliss. See here, bi-polar folk, well, I just wonder what's really at work there, why the polar opposites are so profoundly felt and sought after?

Joseph Campbell is a decent read for 'the power of myths' and he talks about how if we can live through legends, or archetypes, we can dig into a deeper power. His book helped me work through some self issues, and I moved forward with it.

This discussion is completely awesome.

I've often thought about our bodies as vessels for our higher-selves. In both a negative and positive manner. "When the hell did I sign up for this?" has been uttered from my mouth on many occasions

But it is definitely something I believe in. I like your post gibran, and I wish I could experience something similar. To have pride in being here, knowing that there are a lot of other immaterial beings who would jump at the chance to experience this life. Sometimes I find it hard to see what a gift it is.

And I second that, this is an epic thread.

If you haven't already, read The Egg, right here
See his other creative works at http://www.galactanet.com/

It pertains.

Hmmmmm, interesting. Other immaterial beings that would jump at the chance of being here. Are we possibly bringing these other beings down to consensus reality during our salvia trips? Am I the same person I was before the trip? Maybe some former immaterial being is looking through my eyes right now.
Cue the Twilight Zone music.

Yep, I have experienced being a vessel for non physical entities both on salvia and spice. One message I got on spice was that it's not just people who are vessels for the non physical being, but it's all animals, all creatures. It's in dinosaurs and snails and cells too.



Interesting question. I have awoken from trips feeling quite sure that the person who went in to the is not the same thing that woke up. I have no way to know if that might mean anything. But, the most profound trips I have are where all reality falls apart in to complete absurdity. Everything breaks down and there is nothing but pure aware, immortal, eternal spirit. The essence that is behind all things. So, to wonder if I am the same person after a trip is a bit nonsensical because as I see it..... I am no one. The thing that lives this life is the same regardless of geography, or point in time.

This is a wonderful thing, although it can seem scary. There have been trips where I look at an object and have no idea what it is, yet marvel at the all knowing inner force that created that object. Then I look in to my own mind and realize I have no idea who or what I am, and yet, I Am. I am happy to be along for this ride of life, whatever it is that animates this body.

Unfortunately, some people, like the person who wrote this thread, "A Sad Descent into Madness" , some people see the experience of losing ones self as a very bad thing.... even call it madness. I have to say I read that thread and I thought it was a great trip. In fact, standard stuff on a high dose of ayahuasca. I mean, I didn't think his reaction was great, the parts where he was crying and thinking he'd gone mad. I mean, the content of the trip, and the systematic loss of normal reality with a revelation of another dimension of existence. I don't mind when that happens! Joe seems to assume that no one could possibly want to experience such a thing. In other threads, he also seems to assume that people only like spice for the flowery trips, not the ones where things get intense to a point where one begins to lose the usual sense of self. Not so, joe. People are on this road to discover, even if that means discovering that who they think they are isn't who they are. People don't this just to have a cheap thrill, and feel good and party.

I had a trip of similar themes near the time that madness report was written, so I called my trip, "A Glorious Ascent into 'Madness'". Though it may seem bizarre to go in to psychedelic space, there is also wisdom that can revealed.... if one is willing to be open to that wisdom. Otherwise, you might just get scared. Revelations on trips force me to realize that ultimately, everything is ok. The universe isn't out to get me, and no matter what happens, my spirit is free. Psychedelics are not for everyone, but for those willing to let go of what they think they know.

And when I say that psychedelics might cause one to "lose ones self", in my experience that doesn't mean you'll start doing crazy things.... like one might do on alcohol. Normal sense of self preservation and morality, and understanding of consequences of physical reality remain. I've never thought I could fly, never done anything that I wouldn't normally do. But then again, I've never done anything I wouldn't normally do even when extremely drunk on alcohol, and I've often wondered why people use alcohol as an excuse to explain their behavior. I don't buy it. Maybe some people just don't handle drugs well. If you don't handle alcohol well, maybe you won't handle psychedelics either.

I know I'm nitpicking at your post, I apologize in advance. I agree with what you say, except this ^^^

It might be that I have an allergy, or that I have a negative association with alcohol, but my body (and mind) simply does not like alcohol. I've been tested by doctors and they couldn't find any allergy. Both of my biological parents had alcohol problems, hence why it may be a negative association. But when I drink it, I feel poisoned. Serious nauseous, even stomach cramping, violent vomiting, etc. And I always, without fail, become very depressed and anti-social.

All that said, I handle psychedelics exceptionally well. I'm not really saying you're absolutely wrong, because for many people, you may be right. Some people have a very hard time handling altered states, of any sort. Just thought I'd put my two cents in there. Completely unnecessarily, it seems.

I meant psychologically, not physically, as the case may be if one has an allergy. However, even then, I suppose people handle different things differently. I don't know, I guess the alcohol comments weren't necessary. Just a caution. I don't know.

I do understand what you were trying to say. I apologize again, it's just that obviously I still have some issues with alcohol. It is horrible for me both physically and mentally, I just can't handle it. The depression even lasts for a couple days after wards, which is why I don't drink alcohol at all anymore. It's probably been 7 or 8 years since I even had a beer with some friends.

I always wish that psychedelics replaced alcohol in terms of socially acceptable substances. There might be a lot more love and compassion, and a lot less drunken sex with strangers and fist fights in the parking lot at 3am

Just thought I'd let people know how the acetone extract went. It resulted in tar and some powder and the tar stuck like crazy to the glass, making it quite difficult to work with. The tar tasted a lot worse than the leaves, and the tar did not dissolve in the mouth, making me wonder if I was not really getting potential actives within the tar. I resorted to just using the leaves. In conclusion, the leaves taste better, are a lot easier to handle, and concentrating the actives in to a sticky tar seems to result in loss of actives because the concentrate is more difficult to work with. The leaves work just fine.

I think the key issue with buccal absorption (through the oral mucosa) is how well the active chemical is dissolved/suspended. Quidding the leaves, you end up with a decent emulsion or microsuspension that is harder to achieve with a tarry extract. Salvinorin A is moderately soluble in ethanol, so that can help. The best results have been obtained by dissolving salvinorin A in acetone or DMSO (both dissolve salvinorin A readily) and applying it sublingually. Of course, most people don't have DMSO. And you don't want to take any appreciable quantity of acetone sublingually... you can make a 5% solution of salvinorin A in acetone so the dose would only be 1/500th to 1/100th of a milliliter... but then you'd need a micropipette to dose it, which again most people don't have.

So yeah, bottom line: leaf is best unless you've got fancy solvents or equipment.

Salvia Divinorum Action Center

http://www.cognitivelibe...inorum_action_center.htm

Creative cut&paste to cover all topics that I would like relate to. When I've started reading this thread I wanted to write about my own experiences with salvia but this topic has gone to far and I don't want to redirect it to mere "yet another trip raport"-thread.

The difference is between heaven and hell. People are on different levels. We coexist in this world but most people had bad experiences with salvia because they are too attached to reality, not spiritual enough. By this I don't mean the external proofs of spirituality. In lives of too many spiritual adepts there is a huge gap between what they do in their every day life and what they claim to be. Maybe salvia shows something about the true spirituality, that means, true degree of freedom from SAMSARA (the World, the Reality), the purity of soul or non-attachment.

Salvia is a test: what will you do when you die? Will you strive for liberation or will you hopelessly hold on to any little piece of memory, image or sensation, no matter how ephemeral it is, that you can?



Gibran, you are not right. It seems that your thinking is bound to the standards of modern times but currently science is closer then ever to break through its limitations. That means the transition from classical (based on atoms, that means matter) to quantum science (based on energy). Scientists won't tell you what life is, there is simply no correct definition of consciousness. There are only theories and even "permanent" laws like Newtonian physics can become obsolete, like today. So you never know until you'll try to explore your subjectivity, to study your Self, to understand what lies at your core... and energy is far closer to that core then atoms. Did you knew that atoms don't exist? There is no single particle that is solid. Everything is shifting, teleporting and disappearing. Matter, at its core, is simply non-existent in the popular meaning of that word. Science is useful but come on! Don't use it to understand METAphysics.

Now... my experiences with Salvia

First encounter and first healing
My first time was with 10x extract. When I was nearing the breakthrough I freaked out, I felt that some kind of demon had approached me from behind and grabbed me with its claws for my shoulders, cutting through my skin and muscles. I was resisting this experience and holding to reality as much as I could. After that was over I smoked some cannabis and I went to the kitchen. I looked in the darkness. For whole my life I was afraid of the darkness. I had to confront it and I was calmly looking at my fear. It virtually materialised and I saw a small humanoid with big head and huge eyes. It wasn't that scary and it looked pathetic. From now I on I've never been afraid of darkness. Salvia healed me.

Breakthrough
I've gone outdoors with my former girlfriend. We were in a park near railways and a river. I smoked one toke of 20x extract. I started to count down seconds because I wanted to take another toke after 20 seconds. I was looking at my fingers counting seconds and I ceased to count. I was not aware what I was doing but I looked at my moving fingers. I've completely forgot that I'd smoked anything. The the train was coming through and it was the beginning of my journey. What is written next was ultra-fast but in this state of mind time lost it's meaning". It felt that this train has ripped my reality. What I saw became 2D and has moved away like a screen. Besides the screen I saw swirling golden spirals. Reality stood there, aside, like a painting but my girlfriend didn't disappeared. I saw her golden spirit among golden spirals. I tried as much as I could to hold on to evaporating memories and images but to no avail. My ego, memories and every concept, every word, every structure has melted away. Then I looked at me from third person perspective. I was sitting on a surface that was like huge stairs painted vertically in red and yellow stripes. Someone sat beside me. It was a young girl, she was smiling and I looked scared but calm, with huge eyes paved with astonishment. I felt like my self was an actor on the movie screen. Everything was as unreal as movie that is being watched.

Then I felt scared. Everything kept dissolving and I thought that I'm dying. It was so real. Then I thought:
"Oh no, I'm dead! But I wanted to do so many things, I don't want to die now! All my friends, family, goals! But it's okay, I'm dead and I can do nothing about it. Calm down, it's all okay now. Reality wasn't real, it was just a dream. I'm here and one day all my beloved will meet me here."
I'd transcend space-time continuum, my body and mind. I was in limitless space with no time in classical sense. World with all its dimensions was far behind. Well... it was not real anyway so it was like a dream that is being forgot after you wake up.

Then they have approached me. Three to four shining beings. I knew them. They knew me. We were old friends. They have welcomed me. Somehow I felt that they were the cause of all reality. They were the Directors of the World below. Everything is an illusion. They are moving pictures and waving experience but to what purpose? I was happy to stay with them in this calm and warm space but they said "not yet" and the reality started to reappear!

I saw an image of me laying on the ground. It had no meaning, it was concept-less. It wasn't "me", "ground" or anything like that. It was just as it is, a meaningless abstract picture of colours. Then thoughts started to appear and I'd remembered what is going on. Many images flashed through my mind. Someone in consensus reality, on the other side of a river, shouted "let's get out of here". I thought "GOOD IDEA!". [Like with the train, perfect synchronicity and it meant a lot!] Then I looked around. 3D vision has returned but it still had no meaning. I started to figuring out where am I. My Universe started to rebuild itself. It was exactly like BUILDING because it seemed that all following concepts were being made by my mind. I thought in exactly this order:
"Okay, here are objects, there are surfaces like... ground and sky. Okay, I'm between trees near a river. I'm in a city, yes I'm in a city. So there is something beyond the horizon but what was it? Okay, it seems that I'm in some land or country, yes a country! What is the shape of the ground? It was an orb (and I felt like ground warping around to actually rebuild the holographic imagination of planet Earth!) and it was in space, there were other planets, stars and it was in a galaxy and there are other galaxies and..."

I started to laugh very very hard. I was so astonished. It was more real then reality. I... was laughing few weeks later every time I'd remembered what happened. It was so refreshing like computer restart, no! Like being formatted!

Further explorations
I have more interesting stories and experiences with salvia like once I was being a thought of some girl that just forgot this thought and approached her playful activities. Can you imagine that? Being a mere thought that is being forgot by someone else? Do you feel the meaning of this vision?
Once I was coming back from a trip and thought about my wrongful behaviour and I was so detached refreshed that I felt that changing your mind is soooo easy. Then bad thoughts came back. I knew that those thoughts are responsible for wrongful actions. But it was like fitting to a very old tracks. So I instantly realised what KARMA means.
The other day just after coming down from salvia-space I thought about people and I saw them sitting in front of screens and every screen showed something different like money or cross or drugs.

I could write on and on but this post is already way tooo long. Anybody read it all?