When I first found Salvia, I wasn't sensitive either. But after using it regularly for a while, my tolerance started to rapidly fall. Even if I don't smoke any Salvia at all for a few months, my tolerance stays the same. I can breakthrough with a bowl or two of plain leaf.

Also, it's really strange how people seem to have such different experiences, yet there is usually some common theme or thread running through the trips. People usually post reports asking, "Is this normal?" and there always seems to be at least one person who will agree that they've experienced the same thing. Like the wheel you say you've experienced. I've read a lot of reports that mention it, and I've experienced it myself. Someone will say it's this type of wheel, another will say it's more like a ferris wheel. But it's still a wheel.

It's a very strange plant, to be sure. Do let us know how your experience with the soft extract goes.

Thanks, this refreshing read, and all the responses motivated me to smoke plain leaf last night. First time since my harrowing 1/2g of 15x 5 months ago. Now I wonder if the product if fresh enough because this morning I smoked through a bowl pretty quick with no more than mood effects.

Anyway, another layer of fear dissolved, another path I'm coming to know. I might make some 5x out of it if I can't go far enough with my bong.

I've still got some of the 15x that whipped my ass, but I'll still tip toe around that for now.

I suggest you persist with the plain leaf. Always remember the reverse tolerance. It is very real. Smoke a bowl of plain leaf once a day for two weeks, and you'll see it for yourself.

IMO, extracts are only really necessary in the beginning to get you going, so to speak. Not to say that people new to it should dive in and destroy their reality. Just that people don't feel much from plain leaf usually, and they figure, "I might as well smoke this 20x". I only use extracts when I want to go deep into salviaspace. Plain leaf is usually for mood altering/anti-depressant effects, but I can also go pretty far with it, if I wish.

With plain leaf, persistence is the key.

(hey how do you get it to write "Lavos wrote" above my post?)

Yea...I was pretty suspect of that. Actually it's what you wrote above, about smoking it quite frequently for a mood-lifter. I read that on the first page and said, fuck it, I'm down. I smoked two bowls, slowly, over a little less than 10 minutes. It was quite relieving. A lightness to body, an easy smile and laugh. I've smoked it each day since then. And yes, I sit down, eyeing it and the room, aware that the reverse tolerance might sneak up on me.

That's ok, I've been half tempted to throw a sprinkle of the 15x on top of the leaf, expose myself to any harsh feelings left back there. Resolve and what not. We'll see. To help my anxiety I bought a new 'launch pad', slick little leather chaise with massage and sliding seat. I'm quite at home in it.

The code for it is [quote=Lavos]

I'm glad you're using Salvia successfully as a mood elevator. It always brings a smile to my face when I hear of other people using it that way. Salvia really helped to lift me out of a deep depression, and I'll always be grateful for that. It also keeps those feelings from rearing their ugly heads again as well. I get sad, but never like I used to.

As for the reverse tolerance, try smoking a bowl or two of plain leaf as fast as you can. Still holding the smoke as long as you can. It becomes tough after a couple hits because the effects start to get pretty pronounced and you tend to either forget what you're doing or stare off at some random point in the room But that'll be the way you achieve strong effects with the plain leaf. I smoke it slowly myself when I don't want to trip, just to give myself a good boost in positivity. But if you really want to see what plain leaf can do, torch a bowl or two as fast as you can manage, preferably within a minute or two. Also, that's a great way to go about getting into the extract again. Just a little pinch on top of the plain leaf.

I wish I had a nice recliner like the one you described. I usually just sit on my bed, which is old and can be pretty uncomfortable. Sometimes I even opt to sit on my floor rather than my shitty old bed

It's so interesting how each substance has its own unique effects, as well as its own advantages and disadvantages. Salvia is unique to have a "reverse tolerance", or so it is reported, though I haven't experienced that. As for me, I would never smoke plain leaf because I hate smoke and I want to inhale as little of it as possible, and that means using as little leaf as possible. If reverse tolerance is possible, I hope to ween myself down to 20x.

But anyway, it's interesting how each substance has its own uniuqe traits. Salvia is potent in small small amounts, yet only lasts a few minutes. It would be amazing if salvia were as orally active as dmt+rima. That's the difference in substances. Salvia is only available in only one known plant, which is interesting. DMT is widely availbe throughout the living world.

I find it immensely interesting as well. Probably why I've consumed so many different substances. I also enjoy comparing them, without detracting from one experience or the other. I look at Salvia as an oddity. Strange and beautiful.

I think if you used extract regularly you'd notice the reverse tolerance even more so. After all, it is a much larger dose of salvinorin A all at once. Just do what gibran and I do, weigh out your doses until you're down to the tiniest pinch of your 20x The thing about the reverse tolerance is that it doesn't seem to raise after going prolonged periods without ingesting Salvia. I was shocked the first time I went more than six months without touching it, and as soon as I exhaled that lung full of 10x I was blasted into salviaspace. If your tolerance raises after such a long time without using it, it was so minute that I couldn't tell any difference. I was once a pretty heavy user of Salvia though, so maybe this strange tolerance phenomenon is mainly attributed to those who have delved very deep into the strange and exhilarating world Salvia shows us. Even the smell of dried (or even fresh) unburned leaf conjures up some familiar feelings in me. Although I would chalk that up to learned association.

I never experienced the wheel, but i met little white guys who told me, that they would spin the merry-go-round.

Yesterday morning I swept and mopped and cleaned all at like 7 am. Spent an hour or more doing this and that. I was energized when I sat down to cool off with a bowl of salvia. My girl has been intrigued also by the mood elevation effects. We sat down in the living room, her by the PC, and after she took a hit and held it in a little more than a moment, I kinda stared at her, said "It's not weed you know, I don't think it's best if you're on the computer, take a moment to relax and take it in." I sat there with my bowl loaded, patiently waiting for her to 'finish'.

She hit it again, and after she blew it out, I waited a sec, then said "Hey, are you gonna hit that again? If not I'm gonna go ahead. She didn't answer me. lol. I turned completely to her and said "Hey, why don't you answer me" Then I was like, oh shit, she just entered space, didn't want to sound frustrated with her, lol, so reassured her she was cool, take her time. She got that funny salvia attention thing you mentioned, staring off perplexed, then came back to by laughing her ass off. It was swell.

After that I tried to hit mine as hard as I could, trying to clear the bowl in 2 hits. Held the hits so long I saw no smoke exhale from my mouth. But barely more than a slight leg or toe tingle was all that was experienced. So, I want, rather, the extract wants ME, to come out and play. But I'll be patient and see what the leaf does for me for a couple weeks. I got a nice big glass steam roller and I made a great bong the other day to, so today or tomorrow I'll clear a bowl through one of them.

Oh and that recliner, found it through local channels, just $25, wasn't for tripping at first, wasn't even sure if I wanted to keep it or just resale it, but got it in the house by the window and a little cactus, and a pepper plant, it's the bees kness, the captains seat.



Yeah, I think the parallels and the stark differences between DMT and salvia are very interesting and peculiar also. I understand that salvia has very little history prior to 15th century or so, but I might be misinformed. I believe when I broke through, that I was MAOI'd up, I had cleared two bowls with a decent bit of passion flower. I was just out for so much longer than I had ever heard, 20 minutes before I was seeing the room clearly. My consciousness was screaming at me to return (I must have worried it), and that made things uncomfortable too. I definitely want to break through again, after I've begun a relationship with salvia, not just as a tool for removing me from the present.

I like about the Nexus, that there is a nook of dedicated explorers of this plant. I noticed right away, that there were not nearly any reports indicating a desire to never touch the stuff again. Most people here are dedicated explorers period, not likely to call this or that drug 'bad'. It's nice here.

I've had a very scary experience on salvia once.. at the time, I vowed to never touch it again. It was deeply traumatizing. I had no idea you had to be so careful with the dose of extracts.

Looking back, I'm sure it was an overdose.. I have a calling to go back and re-establish my relationship with this plant. I definitely left on a bad note.

Well Lavos, you may just be a hard head when it comes to Salvia. It's ok, I was too when I first found it. I started with a 10x I believe, then I bought stronger and stronger extracts until I reached a 50x. That one blew my head right off. I thought I was dead and that was it. It went from barely any effects to breakthrough. I was completely unprepared for it (though I don't see how anyone can be prepared for a Salvia breakthrough). When I came back to this reality, I was literally on the floor, feeling it, just breathing, marveling at being alive. I have no shame in admitting that I cried. I cried like a little girl. So thankful that I wasn't dead and that I still had time on this earth. Probably the most frightening, and life-changing, event of my life.

Anyhow, after that my sensitivity to Salvia shot through the roof. I'm not encouraging you to blast your brain with a strong extract (ok, maybe I am a little ) but it could be that that's what it will take for you to really experience salviaspace. Then you can be like gibran and I and smoke tiny little wisps of 20x and have deep experiences

And as for the nexus, I also love it here. There are some true explorers here, not just of one substance or another, of tons of different plants/substances. I feel lucky to count myself among them. I salute all of you Nexians, my fellow travelers!

EDIT: Oh, and Lavos, that bit about your girlfriend brought a smile to my face

What was the experience like? Why was it traumatizing? Why do you think it was an overdose? How much was it? Many questions.

Well, a little history. ...delete, long and not too interesting. Short version, I started with the 5, got physical effects but no visions, probably due to incorrect technique. About 6months later got 10x, used it mostly all in one setting. This stuff seems to have been of poor quality. I dropped back on the bed, and had visions, and gravity feelings, etc, but was fully ok, not worried a bit. I could see the music I was listening to, awesome, but so short. I didn't buy anymore for the next 4 years. Don't know why.

Then, last summer, hounding myself for something better, thinking of all I was missing out on with psychedelics, I grabbed a gram of 15x. With that I fully loaded two bowls, one bong one glass pipe, and dumped about half the bag out, splitting the pile between the two bowls. I hit and cleared the bong super hard in one hit. Held for 25+ s, grabbed and pulled the next hit in without an intermission breath. Before I could put the pipe down, the sounds of everything melted into matrix groans. I don't remember breathing out or hitting the ground. My experience was very much like yours, head blown right the F--- off. I knew I had done salvia, I had done more than ever, without a sitter, and had ended everything good for myself, was either dead or being put back together in the hospital. I didn't cry right then, guess I was just so damn awestruck, so perplexed. The next day a few times I cried real good. But I too was soooo thankful to have more time, to not be ripped away unexpectedly.

Anyway, so, that's how it goes these days right. I've been experimenting with the DMT, but think I want to own up to the salvia before I go deep. I don't know if that makes sense but.



Yeah, thought you might,



Yeah there's a major lack of respect for this plant in the world, I mean, most people have no clue. I've considered producing some 10x and tagging it with a detailed note, especially with info on dosage, something that is missing. I'm glad for you though that you feel a need to go back. Takes a strong person to return to places so dark and so haunting.

Hmm, I really wanted to top with some 15x today, but sitter wasn't available when I was in the mood, so I'll wait. But I'm ready to go deeper again.

Hey lavos, could you talk more specifically about what you experienced when you thought you died? What did that feel like? Was there any content? What was happening at the height of the trip where you thought you were dead? Just curious. I have never experienced such a thing with salvia. It's a fairly common thing with spice.

Right, which is what has kept me from really digging into the dmt. The last two times I tried DMT, I still wasn't sure of a breakthrough, and I think DMT has cut me off visually until I take the plunge.

Anyway, onto that trip, that night. This will get long, but you asked for it. Still trying to articulate a trip report that covers it all.

Specifically, what made me think of my death? I came out of 'dreams' (like dreams, but different and expansive and very fast playing), to a white place, but not white light, just flat white, and so many people I had known, and especially family, well they were all hollering my name. As if my consciousness had sunken way back in my throat, voices were yelling my name and I had to come out of something. They were all saturated with color, reds blues and yellows, like big bird or mario, colored and plastic-ky. They were all trying to get me to focus to the right. I think my brain was, in a meta-sense, wrapped around itself.

So I allow my gaze to go to the right. Each second gaining awareness that I am not in the world that I know. As I start to focus on a small black point, I get stuck in the loop, 1,000 or more times I see this white space rising up, and this black space sinking down, like a parking garage or something acting like a giant elevator. And I was sucked into the other view, watching the white depart as I sit in the black. Here I feel my body again, and it's being crushed. And I'm full of a million 'oh fuck me's oh god oh god oh god type stuff as I watch my head go up in the white, body crushed behind/under me. I've really fucked up real bad. And I'm looking back at everyone now and they have this expression like 'exactly! see!' and more oh fuck oh fuck from me. This is about 15 minutes into my trip. I start a deep deep primal scream, that won't fully come out just yet, it sounds like the reverse of good sex, ohhh ohhh, increasing in terror.

See I was knocked out. And so coming to, back into my body like this, the only thing I could think of, was that I was being shown my own death, that I had somehow missed.

That's about the time I remembered that I had smoked salvia. Instantly I begin picturing what had happened after dosing so hard. Nothing but doubt, too many stories of bad trips in my mind, with no real experience. I saw myself laying on a ground where I couldn't get up. I wanted to cry. I just plain thought I'd really fucked up. I don't know where the previous scene went, but as I came back to reality it ping ponged a bit between fully dead and dying.

I imagined myself super high and stumbling out the window, into the parking lot or something. I tried with all my might to see what was going on, to pull myself together, and when I lifted hard to the left, it felt like my face had gone from 9 to 3 on the clock, on the underside. I thought my head must be all over the pavement. I saw reverse visions of me falling from a tall building. Crashing through the glass. Blood on me before I jumped out. I saw myself stabbing my g/f in a psychotic rage. I thought this had all happened pretty much. This is when the primal scream gained full momentum and shot through my core "Ahhh ahhh!! OOOHHHH MY GOD IM DYINNNGG!!!"

By that time my girl had woke and was trying to nurse me back. I heard her voice reassure me I wasn't dying. That's when I thought I was waking from a coma in a hospital. I didn't no no no did not want to wake up in that condition, bless anyone who has been there. She was crying, a little scared that I was having such a hard time. I was sure they were trying to revive me, and I didn't want it.

And this is the more peculiar part. I saw hundreds upon hundreds of 'frames of reality' some a lot different than here. All like movie screens of glass hanging on a conveyor moving quick. A few times, I saw mine, and was sure it was a game, my own personal escape. Not that world, that world is one inside me, one I made up. Without the thoughts, that's how it felt. I asked my girl, with tears forming, "this isn't real is it? you aren't real?" And I must have still been mumbling and hallucinating, because she looked as if to disappoint, and said Sorry baby. Ouch, that hurt bad.

I didn't know what to do. The real world kept slipping away like that, a facade among many, another door. And the strangest, hardest to articulate part happens here. As I'm losing consciousness in the world, like my head is being sucked back, my 'true' eyes are going to be opened. Like the eyes of god, not just in that it contained the view of my whole world, but I could feel the sheer size in comparison to that small vision in my head. And as I slipped back, it was like I, shoulder to shoulder w/ family, and other selfs, were to become the eyelashes of this god eye.

So ineffable. 'I' Was falling back, but it felt like doing so was going to make something else rise up. Me, on the tip of a gods eye. I thought if I did that I'd never see my fantasy again.

And now in deep retrospect, who can know? This world would not exist, to me, if I were not here. If I had let go, would I have received beautiful visions? or been initiated into something altogether different, left a vegetable or mere memory to those in this world. Besides, it all felt made up in my head, who would be left behind if you are all a figment of a very divided and partial imagination? That belonged to a much larger, much more knowledgeable being?

It's deep and schizophrenic, but for me, deep salvia space makes you admit, it could be true. I've read other reports where people felt like they were creating the people around them, and vice versa.

For the record the dosing went like so: 2 bowls of BLACK MAGIC SMOKE, a mix of damania, skullcap, passion flower(MAOI), + more. 2 bowls smoked in about 5 minutes through the bong. To help relax. Then about 380-430mg of 15x, in two hits. Half in water bong, half in tight pipe with a carb.

Yup, That's salvia ^^^^^.

That's quite the dose you took Lavos. So many people are introduced to salvia this way, and so little info was out there about dosing, which is what prompted me to nudge Gibran2 (who had referred to dosage in several threads) to make a thread outlining dosage so that at least the information exists SOMEWHERE on the web. If you haven't already checked it out, it's HERE.

I wrote up several reports that touch on a number of themes present in your experience. There are four parts - here is PART 1 if you feel like giving them a read!!

Thanks for sharing your experience with us - it ws a good read and must have been therpeutic to write!

Cheers,
JBArk

Wow! Good report. I can see why you’re reluctant to dive into the DMT realm now. One long post deserves another:

As I’m sure you now know, dose is every bit as important with salvia as it is with any other strong “medicine” you put into your body. A moderately strong dose of 15X salvia is about 28mg, and you took somewhere between 14 and 16 times that.

One of the things that makes it easy to overdose on salvia is the slight delay of onset. I’ve always considered that a nice feature – I can inhale my dose (which takes maybe 10 seconds), hold it in and start counting. While I’m counting, I can put my equipment down, get comfortable, etc. During this time, there are no effects felt whatsoever. Then, usually by the time I get to 20 or so, it begins. Once it begins, the transition is very fast, but there’s that nice window of time beforehand. Anyhow, that window of sober time can also be used to take additional massive hits. During that time, you’re not feeling it at all, so it’s impossible to realize how much you’ve taken until…, well, you know what happens next.

With DMT, there is no delay of onset, so effects are felt very quickly. This makes it easier to gauge how much you’ve consumed (after your first hit, for example) and more physically difficult to take additional hits. It would probably be physically impossible to take 14 times a normal dose of DMT via smoking/vaporization (which would be 420mg or so).

Your experience has many classic elements of a salvia experience, albeit terrifyingly magnified by the overdose. Seeing family members and hearing them calling out to you, often in a sing-song kind of voice, is common.

Being physically morphed – flattened, stretched, twisted, etc. is very common, and at normal doses, a very fascinating sensation. I usually break through by morphing – I turn inside-out or “bloom” into a new reality. Also, being pulled is a common sensation.

The belief that this reality isn’t real (and that everyone but you knows it!), that you’ve awakened from a dream, and that you’ve returned “home” are all common. The sense that there are many parallel realities, either in layers or frames is quite common, as is the awareness that your “correct” reality is just one of countless many of these layers. Less common generally, but common for me in my early experiences, was being transformed into inanimate objects.

Also common for me, but apparently not generally so (?) is a complete ego loss during the experience: I have no memories of anything before the immediate moment – I don’t know who or what I am, how I got there, how long I’ve been there, where I came from or even if I came from somewhere else. This ego loss is actually comforting – I have nothing to compare my reality to, so it rarely troubles me. I just accept it as if it has always been that way.

There is often an emotional flatness felt during salvia experiences. A state of being that is almost emotionless. Of course, at higher doses that changes to terror.

DMT is different from salvia, so try not to let your experience with salvia unduly influence your attitude toward DMT. Also, I’d recommend trying salvia again, but with proper set and setting, proper dose, etc.

Great post Lavos. That report reminds me of my experience a bit too much It still scares me a bit. That was the first time I truly experienced ego death, and I really thought that was it. I had no sense of self, and thought that this must be what it's like to be dead. And I convinced myself to such an extent that I truly believed it, and then the trip wound down and I was back. Incredible feeling after wards, but the experience itself was horrifying. I'm not really one that scares easily, so I've never felt terror like that before, or since.

I think I'm also somewhat reluctant to take a breakthrough dose of DMT because of that first Salvia experience. I've taken some pharma doses that were very pleasant, but they weren't high enough to produce ego death. I just want to give DMT the respect it deserves, as opposed to how I was with Salvia in the beginning I also want to get a GVG so that I can vaporize it properly. I'll probably end up making some changa first, as that seems like a somewhat gentler way to experience smoked DMT.

And gibran says it all. Some very common things you described there. Not only have I experienced them myself, but I've read countless reports of people experiencing the same things. Again, great write up.

Well, I'm humbled, the compliments mean a lot from such intelligent minds.



Yeah, my first time with anything like ego death. I say that, but I had a young PCP experience whereby a small jar of fluid, 'wet', was emptied over a few squares. (we thought) And so we dumped the remaining on top of a bowl and I hit it first. There was enough for the flame to go whoosh and light the air above the bowl. I was out for hours, but it was more like ego loss, had no idea who I was and my parents, etc, by the time those ideas were formed I was standing again.

With salvia it was true bye bye, this world was gone. It's strange saying it so casually, because it does not feel so at the time. Hopefully with continued journeying, more respect, more intent, more integration, the ego death will become something more. Would it be so bad to see it all this go? If life were a mere shadow of the possibilities?



Ha! Sound just like me man, lol. I've done aya twice at very low MAOI. Still want a proper 60-80g cappi tea, will skip the Jurema tea and just put DMT in a pill. Anyway, I keep saying I want to respect the DMT, and trust me I do, I want to be able to let go. Guess I can't force that act. Letting go. Gotta have faith or something maybe. I've read some of The Pscyhedlic Experience, it helps a good bit imo. I also have been telling myself why not wait to get the cappi if it smooths it out.

Last week I sat down to smoke some, took two hits, but it was like I couldn't hold my breath, my chest was just shaky. Right as I confirmed I was fine with the noise dissolving my reality, the strangest thing happened. Same thing happened about 2 months before on my last attempt. The heat fan kicks on. It comes on usually for about 15 minutes an hour, and both the last two attempts, on days which were unseasonably nice, the fucker kicks on 5 seconds after exhalation. Anyway, I think DMT is done treating me to small doses until I'm ready to breakthrough. Originally on doses like that I was getting all kinds of CEV.

Still I kinda think the salvia would greatly appreciate being faced again before I go off after other things.
If courage is all you need, what's the problem? lol, yeah, I'm not used to scaring easy either, 90mph in rush hour is just fun on a good day.



Yeah, thanks for the dosing thread. Like I said, most don't have a clue. The night I was smoking, I literally felt no effects at all until after I was drawing in the second hit, some 40 seconds after my first huge lungful. Sound and light just melted around me.

MAN! the feeling, that I have now, knowing in reverse, how scared I was coming back. Yet such a simple quick bleep out of this world. So strange, it punished me for it good. I kinda wonder if I had a sitter and did the same thing, what would be different? But really I like the idea of morphing/twisting into the experience rather than twisting morphing out of my insane dreams, that's some weird shit.



Yeah, I couldn't sleep that night, was reading reports everywhere, and was so amazed how similar some were.

With the family members, I've recently considered the possibility of a spirit, or one's own consciousness, filling these forms to befriend your and bring your attention back to reality. But then again salvia made me think I'd filled all the forms from my own thought.

My second experience with the 10x, featured very comfortable morphing sensations. Basically I started drooling, and then fell back to the left, and in subtle visions, saw that I was being dragged through many many neighborhoods, and it was like the dirt and gravel of this movement were filling my face. But it didn't really bother me. Afterward a loop of me climbing some infinite tower, and then seeing some music. I tried going right back in with almost no effects.

Hmm, you're experience with the ego loss might be due to correct dosage? I definitely had full ego loss before the 'death' scene. I was watching what seems like hundred of dreams, my own action hero, but clueless to 'who' he/I was. On the other hand, maybe your ego is just more in check, more in tune, ie you listen to your higher intuition more, and you have great understanding I've always thought it should help the psychedelic experience to understand duality and accept change, etc.



Jbark, I read those reports, thought I might have commented on one somewhere, maybe not. They were good reads, might go over them again, you had a sound approach man. Oh and you should know, I posted in that dosage thread over a month ago , but that's 'aight

And you're right, it was therapeutic to get it out all in one motion like that. Thanks for the words of encouragement, you guys are alright, I don't care what the other drug forums say just playing, other guys

Wow, your post is the first one I've read that mentions the "crushing" aspect of near death salvia experiences. I've always wondered if other people had experienced the crushing sensation.

I've always tried to make sense of the experience. For me, it's as if my world/life/ego has been pressed down by an extremely heavy force. Perhaps death is the heavy force. Death is like an upper layer pressing down on what is rapidly becoming a nearly snuffed out world/life/ego. Somewhere in all this is the sensation that 3d reality has collapsed into a 2d battle between life and death. Thank goodness for the short duration of salvinorin alpha. If I had to deal with that struggle for hours, I'd probably be a vegetable in a mental ward.

Doctor A-- "What is the condition of this patient? My God, he looks like a broccoli."
Doctor B-- "Yes, he's an interesting case. Too much salvia divinorum. Turned him into a broccoli. He kept screaming about being crushed. Now, he's just silent."
Nurse----- "Doctor, this morning I heard him whisper a request for some ranch dressing."
Doctor B-- "Hmmm, raise his prognosis from questionable to hopeful."
Nurse----- "Yes, doctor."