MelodicCatastrophe.

Good old aluminium foil is a method that I mastered over the course of approximately five years-this involved smoking heroin aka 'chasing the dragon' several times daily.

I shudder to think how much spice I would have wasted and how much more deranged the alleys of my mind would have been if I tried to master this somewhat dubious 'art' through smoking spice.Aesthetically people have understandable reservations about this technique due to all the negative connotations it carries.But it is remarkably smooth and effective IF you have the knack.

Since making the post you refer to and after several discussions with the more senior Nexians I now tend to use a classic VaporGenie which allows the same propulsion to hyperspace but by using less weight of DMT.

Unless you have chased the dragon to the same extent as I have I would suggest that the VG is the way to go.Clearly, a heroin habit is too much of a price to pay to become an Ubermaster of the Foil (!) but it certainly gives you a little more flexibility and another route to hyperspace should the need arise!

Hi all,

This is a beginner question, but I'm not sure where to find the answer. I'd like to know about the durations and intensities for the methods listed in the original post. Are all these dosages designed to achieve comparable intensity? How about duration? I see people talking about 6 hour trips, and having only had 3-5 smoked DMT experiences, it is very hard for me to imagine being in hyperspace for that long. I've recently lived the most intensely psychedelic experiences in my life, and I just keep realizing I'm in the kiddie pool. The mind boggles. Again.

There's nothing kiddie-pool about vaporizing spice, Shayku - but as one who goes that route pretty much exclusively, I'm with you as far as being intimidated by hours inside hyperspace. I've had only very light oral/sublingual sessions. I like knowing before I blast off that however far I may go, I'll be on my way back in 10 minutes. I do often utilize sublingual harmalas in conjunction with vaporization, however - and that can draw things out considerably (while also changing the overall character of the experience pretty significantly).

Corpus Colossum - I honestly don't know how you do it with the foil. To me, this just isn't a workable delivery system at all. I too chased the dragon daily for several years - and aside from the gnarly health concerns associated with smoking anything off of foil, heroin and DMT just smoke so very differently. I'm glad to hear that you picked up a VG. Now get a glass one, and I believe you'll see that there's just no comparison whatsoever. That truly is THE best and easiest delivery system for this thing of ours, HANDS DOWN.

How does it change the experience, if I may ask you to verbalize something that may not be possible to verbalize?

I hear you Art!

DMT and heroin do behave differently on the foil and the key to vaporising the former is to apply a ridiculously hesitant amount of heat and its very effective- more so than the bong method in terms of weight of material required.But the discussion is an academic one as the VG is superior.But is the glass VG that much better than the classic? The Classic is a dangerous weapon in terms of the assault it can make on ones mind!

cc - Oh my God is there a difference. You will be astounded by how much more efficient it actually is. It's incredible.

Shayku - Absotutely you may. It's actually not that hard to verbalize some of the differences - at least as I experience them.

With, the peak is a little bit longer and the exit is much less abrupt. Tolerance is less of an issue as you can basically just go and go and go - and repeated hits have a cumulative effect, producing a very alien LSD-like experience (kinda sorta) for as long as a couple of hours. The body load is greatly increased, as is the physical euphoria - and depending on the harmala in question, I'll get waves of electric heat traveling up and down my body (even as I'm leaving it far behind). The experience in general feels somehow electrified or amped up to the next level, and you need less spice to get the job done. It's a stupefying combination.

just wanted to ask if anyone has any info or experience with 95% pure harmine/harmaline freebase and both oral and sublingual doses both minimum for maoi effects and also whatdose amount for stand alone effects? thanks

anyone have anything on this?

as I pmed you already, this thread here has the answer to your question, so I merged it here.

SWIM is pretty sensitive to harmalas, but she goes with 20mgs of sublingual for vaping. At 30mgs she begins to get standalone effects. Looking around the forums, for potentiating sublingual DMT it looks like 50-60mgs might be appropriate.

ok. so. maybe this is common sense or posted somewhere else but i couldn't find it. if the normal dose for smoking is 30-50mg...what would be the normal dose if it's been recrystallized? is there a formula for recrystallization to dosage? i've got 2.5grams of 4x recrystallized spice (bestine). would the normal dosage still apply? very light yellow shards. thanks.

yeah dosage will be basically the same IME. You can try a bit less just in case (like 20-30mg) but I think you will also find it to be the same.

A question about maoi doses for pharma.

If one used 60 g of white caapi for tea with 50 mg of extracted spice and got minimal results, would it be safe to consume the 500 mg of extracted caapi alkaloids that came from an identical 60 g white caapi tea for another experience?

The reason i ask is because i read 30-70g for caapi brews or 200+ mg of caapi extract.

Yet my 60 g white brew yields 500 mg slightly brown caapi alks... :S

Thanks

That’s an interesting question that I don’t think has been answered yet.

500mg of extracted caapi alkaloids is a huge dose (at least for me). 250-300mg is more reasonable. Yet it’s interesting that the equivalent amount of alkaloids, when consumed as caapi tea, produces much milder effects. Maybe there’s something in caapi that slows the absorption of alkaloids? Or acts as a buffer? Or…?

If you were to take the full dose of 500mg (and I’m not recommending it), I’d like to hear the results.

^ it might be that with tea the sediments drop out. The sediments are always active in my experience. Anyone who has ever brewed big batches of vine and dunk one day without shaking and then again after shaking the bottle knows that when you shake it up it can be alot stronger. I think an extraction might just get all of that out but in a brew some of the harmalas bind to tannins or something and drop. You can even just rebrew the sediment and drink it and it will be active.

well before i brewed i read to keep all sediments... so i did.. even scrapped the residue off the walls of the pot as it reduced (which i think made for the unpleasantries (sp?) )...

I made sure to stir the reduced brew and divide it in 2 while it was mixed... this was very nauseating and i purged twice at t 0:40 ( a mere 20 minutes after ingesting the spice, hence my question below) and somewhere around t 3:00 or 4, cant really remember when but i was nauseous until i purged the second time haha...

anyways if/when i try the "equivalent" extract I will be sure to post the results (I'll be sure to use the same amount of spice too)

a question about redosing, how long is the maoi active for? ie how long after taking the extract can i wait before taking more spice wont do anything?

- if im still feeling the maoi effects is it still actively working in my gut?

Update: Ok so here goes.. I repeated the experiment with an equivalent dose of extracted caapi alks (60 g caapi tea vs 60 g of (the same brew) caapi tea extract). At t 0:40 (40 min after taking caapi alks in OJ, 20 min after 50 mg of yellow spice in OJ) the tea was by far "stronger" compared to the extracted alkaloids (i was more aware of the tea than the extracted alks). Unfortunately that was the only conclusion i can make, as at that time i decided to take more caapi extract and more spice (as I wasnt where i wanted/thought I should be).

Anyways, i added more spice and more caapi alks. WOW, big mistake (to add more of the caapi alks, anywas, IMO)... I had taken way too much caapi alks (alkaloids), or so i believed. I don't want to say how many (as i dont want to start a pissing match, though im sure people have taken more) but it was honestly too much for me at this time/for my previous experience (this was only my second time doing pharma).

I spent the better part of an hour puking up everything i had in me and then some. Very violent purging until everythgin was gone! After which i thought i was going to die due to tremors/shaking (of which i read was "normal" for higher dose harmalas). While this was not a realistic thought I still believed it to be true at the time (though be it a short time ~ 30 min). I wanted help. I wanted it to end.. I wanted to call 9-11 and for them to knock me the F out.... Essentially i was afraid for no "real" reason (though one might call ego death real ).... Knowing others have been there before helped

However, i waited out these thoughts.. I knew I was over exaggerating and knew i was in no "real" danger... My fears subsided shortly after, because i received comforted from a loved one... We talked about a lot of things and all my fears faded about an hour later, thankfully. (Or perhaps it was because i had puked everything out and the high faded )....

Anyways a few lessons I learned...

If you are new to this start SLOW... there is no rush... work yourself / doses up gradually

RELAX, calm down and breathe... Recently i moved away from meditation (why Im not sure)...But it definately would have helped me in this instance, I just couldnt focus on anything but the negatives/nausea

I also learned there is nothing to fear but fear itself (i know this is cliche, but for me, in this instance, it was soooo true). I was in no real danger ( i dont think anyways) but i was so afraid (however if you believe you are in real danger i ask that you seak professional advise immediately).

Overall this was an amazing experience. It taught me so much I could not have learned otherwise.

Thank you everyone, thank you mama aya, for this experience!

Wishing everyone a safe and peaceful journey,

The Dude

Resurrecting this thread because I have a question...
Been searching but cant quite find the answer iam looking for.

I so far tried Rue/Mimosa in two different ratios

3/3 which was very chilled out, and already interesting. No major visuals.
3/5 was very tryptamine heavy. On the peak I wouldnt notice the harmala anymore, mostly DMT space.

So what would be good dose to get the famous traditional ratios(harmala heavy, with the DMT as enhancer, but not necessarily a full blown jungle dose) with those two plants?

Can anybody describe what for example 5 rue 3 mimosa would be like?

Thanks
woogy

I guess there are no "traditional ratios"

Numbers are tricky as material and brew style/effectivity differs between people but I recognize much in your 3/3 and 3/5 remark. Sounds like 4/4 would be straight in the middle and suiting your quest?

I've not met many that do 5 rue, 4 is a more accepted number.
If people do 5 or 6 and are cool with that, they may be less sensitive or have weak seeds but my bet is they made a tea leaving actives in the seeds behind.
Last extraction gave 6.6% rueHCL or 5.6% freebase, so for 5 gr seeds should give like 330 mg rueHCL or 280 freebase harmalas. Too much for me TBH, the thing is not only experience depth but your poor body has to process all the alkaloids resulting in body load that puts an extra burden there, and higher likeliness for a very premature purge. I don't mind healing purges on the peak of experience at all, but rather not due a cramping stomach in the very early come up stage.

Happy trials.

Must say that Passionflower leaf sounds interesting. The Carealeau type is supposedly with more strength, wonder how much of that dried would work as maoi, compared to Incrnata variety.

Adding that to already active light plants to give that extra dimention sounds extremely fascinating.

fLOWERS are another interesting topic.

Lovely plant, lovely name.