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Lespedamine / Lespedeza bicolor Options
 
PsilocybeChild
#1 Posted : 5/5/2020 8:42:48 PM

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Quote:
Lespedamine is an indole alkaloid and substituted tryptamine present in the plant Lespedeza bicolor.[1] The alkaloid bears a close structural resemblance to the psychedelic alkaloid dimethyltryptamine and was speculated to have psychoactivity by Alexander Shulgin. No reports on lespedamine's biological activity have been published.

IUPAC name 2-(1-Methoxy-1H-indol-3-yl)-N,N-dimethylethanamine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lespedamine


And from another web page stating it's posted material from Jonathan Ott's Ayahuasca Analogues:
Quote:

* Lespedeza bicolor var. japonica [DMT,5MD,l,rb]
5-METHOXY-N-METHYLTRYPTAMINE Bark, BUFOTENINE Plant,
BUFOTENINE-OXIDE Fruit, N,N-DIMETHYLTRYPTAMINE Fruit,
N,N-DIMETHYLTRYPTAMINE-OXIDE Fruit, N-METHYLTRYPTAMINE Bark,
HOMOORIENTINE Leaf, LEUCOANTHOCYANIN Plant,
LEUCOPELARGONIDOL Plant, ORIENTIN Leaf, SAPONARETIN Leaf,
VITERINE Leaf


https://www.serendipity.li/dmt/hoasca.html



Plant and tryptamine were previously mentioned in this thread:
dmt-nexus.me: Lespedea bicolor Seeds

Always interested in new natural tryptamines. Can anyone add any info?
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kerelsk
#2 Posted : 5/5/2020 11:51:43 PM

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I have a little plant I've been cultivating since last year.
Took some leaves from my young plant and boiled them up. Tried a couple grams with some harmalas, but no tryptamine effects in particular. I may not have taken enough harmalas... so that test was inconclusive.

The brew had very little tryptamine smell though, it had a 'green' scent, but somehow seemed immature.

I have been less excited about this plant as it is reported to contain bufotenin according to Some Simple Tryptamines. On the other hand, it would be a perfect cold-region plant if a cultivar could be developed, or if it was found to be very low in bufo.

Wyrm is said to have had success with 30 grams of red, autumn foliage in a brew. I believe they are a member here, I'm sure we'd all love to have some more details on that!
 
PsilocybeChild
#3 Posted : 5/6/2020 12:53:48 AM

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Did you feel any sedative effects?

https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?/topic/1259-lespedeza-bicolor/

user Hoodo:
Quote:
Some years back I sent K Trout the rootbark of Japanese Les. Bi. for study and he noted that nothing new in particular was observed from his analysis.

It took me many hours to harvest the plants and then another three hours or so to carve off the root's bark so that there would be enough for him and some locals to run some tests. Overall, harvesting the rootbark was slow and arduous.

Aquaintances here in Japan who attempted to see if synergy with meclobemide would occur proved unsuccessful with 30-50 grams per person, of this particular rootbark that was powdered and then steeped in sub-boiling water for 30 minutes. Instead of any notable dmt activity, only the sedative effects of the lespedemine (sp?) were strongly apparent. There was little difference between ingesting 30-50 grams of tea with or without a MAOI. The predominate effect of lespedemine is fairly boring not euphoric and sedative, it induces drowsiness. The drowsiness lasted much too long, well through the next day, even after a fitful sleep after the first day. The sedation even seemed to be slightly noticeable on the third day. I can not see any reason to do any more research with this plant unless you are looking for a sedative. The DMT must be in very small amounts.

DMT is said to be most prevalent in the root's bark in early spring, just after winter when the plant has just awoken from dormancy. Why? The roots have likely stored up chemicals probably to deter burrowing rodents or insects during dormancy, (snowy winter here) or it is also possible that the chemicals are stored up upcoming components of spring's new leaves, stems and defence.
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Chimp Z
#4 Posted : 5/6/2020 9:55:05 AM

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Having a couple bunk trips on a plant doesn’t mean the plant is not worth pursuing.
Has anyone run TLC tests or extracted the Lespedeza?
The plant in literature which is said to have DMT is L. Bicolor subsp. Japonica
If you have access to an abundance of these plants growing we need monthly extraction tests to verify
what time of year Lespedeza truly provides the magic spices.
 
kerelsk
#5 Posted : 5/6/2020 2:45:27 PM

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I agree this plant needs much more testing. I would like to stress that my preliminary test was extremely cursory, the first dipping of the toe into the pool, but no more. Nothing big came out to bite me, but that says very little. EDIT2: No drowsiness noted. Leaves were boiled, which is suspected to convert lespedamine to dmt & formaldehyde.[1]

In Some Simple Tryptamines EDIT: Under section DMT
Quote:

Lespedeza bicolor “Bush clover”
Positive tlc assays in seeds, seed pods, stem-bark and roots. co-tlc by Appleseed

Seeds/seed-pods showed same alkaloids as stem-bark but darker and with 3-7 additional bands. (Seeds & pods harvested summer 1994) August stem-bark showed light band.
[Successful bioassay of 30 gm of red fall leaves reported by Wyrm; pers. comm.]

Roots harvested in December showed a positive for DMT and lighter for two other bands. tlc by Appleseed 1994-1995
Some of these results used Ehrlichs spray and there may be confusion with 5-MeO-DMT in seeds and seeds/seed-pods.

Lespedeza bicolor Turcaninow var japonica Nakai
DMT in plant. Goto et al. 1958
Major alkaloid in leaf and one of the main alkaloids in the root bark. Root bark showed higher concentration than leaves. Morimoto & Matsumoto 1966
In leaf. Morimoto & Oshio 1965


Also L. capitata may be worth looking into

Quote:
Lespedeza capitata Rätsch 1998 lists as containing DMT; citing Kindscher 1992.


I'll be doing more tests as my plant grows up. I don't have the funds or resources to do TLC, but I'm interested to use the old method (starting from minuscule doses and gradually raising).
 
kerelsk
#6 Posted : 5/6/2020 3:35:26 PM

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Also, in regards to the bufotenin content, it may be negligible.
From reports it seems bufotenin and 5-meo-dmt are orally active, but more potent, and potentially more dangerous, when used with an MAOI.

L. bicolor and apparently L. capitata seem to be used as medicinal teas and forage for animals, indicating relative safety.

From PFAF, regarding L. bicolor
Quote:
Young leaves and stems - cooked[105, 177, 179, 183]. Flowers - cooked[177, 183]. Seed - cooked[105, 177, 179]. Occasionally boiled and eaten with rice[183]. The leaves are used as a tea substitute[177, 183, 266]


Also from PFAF, regarding L. capitata
Quote:
The plant contains several biologically active compounds. Pharmaceutical preparations are manufactured from them[222]. An extract of the plant is of disputed utility in chronic kidney disease[222]. Experimentally, it has demonstrated antitumor activity against Walker-256 carcinosarcoma and is also reportedly effective in lowering blood cholesterol levels[222]. It is also believed to reduce blood levels of nitrogen compounds in persons with high nitrogen levels in their urine[222]. The root has been used as an antidote to poisoning[257]. The stems have been used in moxibustion in the treatment of neuralgia and rheumatism[222, 257].


From Prairie Moon nursery, regarding L. capitata
Quote:
The plant is especially high in protein making it a favorite choice of many kinds of mammalian wildlife including deer, rabbits, and muskrat. It can also be used in pastures as livestock forage. The seeds are eaten by gamebirds and songbirds, including the Mourning Dove, Bobwhite, Turkey, and Junco.


L. bicolor is listed as a forage many times rather circumspectly if you look at google scholar.
Here's one such article Comparing nitrate reductase activity for five drought-resistance forages in Ningxia
Also, I don't have access to this Chinese journal, but this is interesting: Effects of Spaceflight on Characteristics of Lespedeza Bicolor
 
kerelsk
#7 Posted : 7/3/2020 5:23:02 PM

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One of my Lespedezas lost a branch from some small animal gnawing it off a few weeks ago, which I set aside to dry for testing.

I was inspired by Benzyme's post about tryptamines fluorescing under 365nm UV light, so I ordered a small flashlight.
Unfortunately I received a 395nm light... ah well, might as well try it... and it works!
First I tested an old Acacia confusa veggie oil extraction, a faint blue fluorescence much weaker than harmalas but quite visible even inside near a window at daytime.

So now I just got around to testing the Lespedeza branch, and it also fluoresces!
Promising to say the least. The leaves are so light though that I imagine you would need a large bush to get anything near the supposed 30 grams active dose.

First pic is the confusa extract, followed by a tap water control, followed by various pics of the L. bicolor tea.
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downwardsfromzero
#8 Posted : 7/3/2020 9:57:43 PM

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While absence of fluorescence would obviously be a bad sign in the search for actives, it's worth bearing in mind that there is a large number of fluorescent biomolecules, including caffeic acid and its derivatives which are fairly ubiquitous. This is where TLC is your friend.

Is your specimen var. japonica? Is the plain, vanilla L. bicolor likely to be of equal interest?




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kerelsk
#9 Posted : 7/3/2020 11:52:10 PM

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That's a good point downwardsfromzero, I may have to try TLC sometime. I don't have any reference DMT freebase, only as acetate tincture, I'd have to look into the effectiveness of that.
Seeing as L. bicolor is referenced to be eaten as food/tea, I may try a simple bioassay once I have enough material.

The seeds were sold to me as simply L. bicolor, no further info.
 
 
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